What is the relationship of edgy mainstream Rightism (McGuirk, Tommeh, etc) to the Dissident Right and Nationalism?

[SwordOfStZip]

An interesting piece appeared recently on the National Party website giving one of their members' views on the subject which high lighted tensions in Ireland going back centuries. The writer sees the likes of McGuirk and Tommeh as both parasites on and blocks to the type of Nationalist energies manifest in the National Party- something I think @AN2 would broadly agree with. To some extent I think this is true but I am not convinced it is as true as many people seem to believe.

The Road to Zion: The "Conservative Movement" in Ireland - The National Party

The job of the left is to de-radicalise their legacy base long enough to extort votes from them while conservatives seek to do the same with their supporters long enough to pick their pockets. As rabid internationalists, the left are preprogrammed to betray the local interests of their...

nationalparty.ie

 

[AN2]

An interesting piece appeared recently on the National Party website giving one of their members' views on the subject which high lighted tensions in Ireland going back centuries. The writer sees the likes of McGuirk and Tommeh as both parasites on and blocks to the type of Nationalist energies manifest in the National Party- something I think @AN2 would broadly agree with. To some extent I think this is true but I am not convinced it is as true as many people seem to believe.

The Road to Zion: The "Conservative Movement" in Ireland - The National Party

The job of the left is to de-radicalise their legacy base long enough to extort votes from them while conservatives seek to do the same with their supporters long enough to pick their pockets. As rabid internationalists, the left are preprogrammed to betray the local interests of their...

nationalparty.ie

I very broadly agree with the article.

Usually when I articulate this stuff it's met with a blank stare, or occasionally some pushback (e.g. @Clean and free the other day).

It takes a few minutes to read but I would certainly be interested to hear other member's opinion.

And I promise I won't do a Clough on it

 

[AN2]

And let's not leave out Farage.. The man who boasted that he single-handedly destroyed nationalist politics in Britain..


View: https://twitter.com/Henrik_Palmgren/status/1719783650714370290?t=7vSaDgFRs9eOgYd3PkYi1g&s=19

 

[jpc]

I'm going to say not much.
They are commenting on what is happening not ignoring it.
Unlike MSM's totally cancelling of everything outside the approved liberal bubble.

 

[SwordOfStZip]

I'm going to say not much.
They are commenting on what is happening not ignoring it.
Unlike MSM's totally cancelling of everything outside the approved liberal bubble.

This is a valid point. Gript, and that very much includes John McGuirk, have done really valuable journalistic work that was not being done by anyone else. This makes me feel guilty about being critical of them.

 

[AN2]

I'm going to say not much.
They are commenting on what is happening not ignoring it.
Unlike MSM's totally cancelling of everything outside the approved liberal bubble.

McGuirk isn't palatable for the MSM? Haven't they had him on plenty of times?

 

[AN2]

They think he's literally Hitler, and his publication is Der Sturmer reborn.

Have you seen the utter loathing and hate theexpat forum addicts on gaychat possess towards him?

And?

I mean, it's obviously insane who the 'Left' think is literally Hitler, far right etc. but he's not cancelled on the MSM, he is part of the approved liberal bubble. Which of course is typical for controlled opposition.

 

[AN2]

He's not cancelled because they (Pravda etc) have to try to maintain a veneer of so-called impartiality - and he's the only one they can find.

Why is he the only one they can find? Do they ever have nationalists on (and please don't tell me that you think McGuirk is a nationalist)?

 

[SwordOfStZip]

McGuirk isn't palatable for the MSM? Haven't they had him on plenty of times?

You can find out about things going on in the country in Gript which you would not if you just relied on "The Irish Times", etc.

The article in the OP raises several issues- "Conservatism" in so far as it is about maintaining High Western culture, decent standards of behavior and family values I support, however how far is it about those things especially those things in and of themselves rather than as means to other ends both these days and in the past? I don't think that Clanrickard and Kevin Parlon really care about those things at all.

 

[jpc]

McGuirk isn't palatable for the MSM? Haven't they had him on plenty of times?

Given any excuse.
McGuirke will be very publicly removed from any discussions.
Hate speech misinformation take your pick.
He and his team are very fastidious with their articles and pick their arguments well.
Long may they publish.

 

[AN2]

You can find out about things going on in the country in Gript which you would not if you just relied on "The Irish Times", etc.

The article in the OP raises several issues- "Conservatism" in so far as it is about maintaining High Western culture, decent standards of behavior and family values I support, however how far is it about those things especially those things in and of themselves rather than as means to other ends both these days and in the past? I don't think that Clanrickard and Kevin Parlon really care about those things at all.

The article is about the "conservative movement" in Ireland.

If you want to just say that Gript is great because you can find out about things (that you wouldn't otherwise be able to) then fine.

But you're ignoring the article.

 

[AN2]

Given any excuse.
McGuirke will be very publicly removed from any discussions.
Hate speech misinformation take your pick.
He and his team are very fastidious with their articles and pick their arguments well.
Long may they publish.

@Clean and free says they have him on to maintain a veneer of impartiality and you're saying that they're just waiting for an excuse to cancel him..

 

[jpc]

@Clean and free says they have him on to maintain a veneer of impartiality and you're saying that they're just waiting for an excuse to cancel him..

Yep!

 

[AN2]

Yep!

Do you not see a disconnect?

They want him on to maintain a veneer of impartiality (in fact, he's the only one they can find) and they're just waiting for an excuse to not have him on?

How about they have him on because he's, you know, kosher

 

[jpc]

Do you not see a disconnect?

They want him on to maintain a veneer of impartiality (in fact, he's the only one they can find) and they're just waiting for an excuse to not have him on?

How about they have him on because he's, you know, kosher

It's a delicate balance.
As mentioned earlier he and his team have to be really accurate.
Gript are outside the club and will be ripped for any mistake.
The Gript team ask awkward questions that others will not attempt.
Governments aren't used to that impertinence anymore.

 

[AN2]

It's a delicate balance.
As mentioned earlier he and his team have to be really accurate.

Gript are outside the club

How?

There's no point in going around in circles but McGuirk is literally in the club

and will be ripped for any mistake.
The Gript team ask awkward questions that others will not attempt.
Governments aren't used to that impertinence anymore.

 

[AN2]

Did anyone else read the article?

 

[jpc]

How?

There's no point in going around in circles but McGuirk is literally in the club

Gript get zero funding from the government.
Unlike the other media outlets.
Remember 750 million to RTE.
And the below

Media regulator launches €6m public-interest journalism fund to include council and court reporting

Media regulator Coimisiún na Meán has launched two new journalism schemes, with €6m of Exchequer funding.

www.independent.ie

I've added my 10 cents worth.
And haven't much more to say.

 

[AN2]

Going Forward: The Game to Isolate the “Far-Right”​

What we can expect long-term from the Irish conservative movement is par for the course. They will do what it is in their nature to do. Everyone wants to be the big fish in the pond. Conservatives have lost most of their status in Official Ireland so must content themselves with controlling the disenfranchised right. Their aim will be to gain controlling interests in a network of institutions capable of providing a bulwark against a “far-right party” or in other words a party they cannot control. Inevitably that means the National Party as it is conspicuous that we are the only organisation in Ireland who the conservative movement brands as “far-right”. The rest — regardless of how extreme their behaviour or rhetoric becomes — are given a pass as respectable. What we can infer from this is that the National Party are the one organisation who are not “acceptable” to the pro-Israeli right, any more than our existence is tolerable to the Marxist left.

 

[AN2]

He gets asked on (reluctantly) because they need to pretend they're interested in "balance" - and whether you like him or not, he has a profile. He's well known for his involvement in campaigns like the infanticide referendum, and is the editor of a fairly successful online publication.

No doubt he's seen as more respectable than the likes of Barrett, but that's because Official Ireland have decided that any person vocal in its opposition to Ireland being transformed into a cultureless, characterless dumping ground for the world and its granny - is not allowed a platform under any circumstances

Sure, McGuirk may be useless in many ways but to label him "controlled opposition" is silly.

The article proposes that the conservative movement is worse than useless - from a nationalist perspective

At this stage I don't think that anyone has actually read it besides me (or certainly no one has responded to anything that was said in it)

Would you consider yourself a nationalist, as a matter of interest?

Here's an example of the good work Gript do. What other organ is highlighting this sick carry on.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tnfwbpEwQSA&t=2s

 

[AN2]

Sure.

And it doesn't bother you that McGuirk is anti-nationalist?

 

[AN2]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nxYS1sEnM0&t=19m41s

 

[AN2]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nxYS1sEnM0&t=19m41s

Be a 'centrist'
Don't be an anti-Semite
Don't be a nationalist/'racist'

I can't stand that fucking guy

 

[SwordOfStZip]

Be a 'centrist'
Don't be an anti-Semite
Don't be a nationalist/'racist'

I can't stand that fucking guy

A problem is that by roc_'s standards almost all the Catholic Saints were "Antisemites" and that is before we get into cases such as Saint John Chrysostom who no Catholic could dream of rejecting but who really did go too far when it came to the Jews. He probably thinks that by adopting "roc speak" he is being really smart, so clever and really sticking it to the "Lefties" and the "Muzzies" but he is sawing the branch he is sitting on in many ways through indulging in this talk.

And the whole "don't be a racist" is a virtue signalling that very many people will see as being so insincere as to be creepy. There is no need for him to mention Jews or discuss race- a lot of the time a discreet silence is the best thing in this life.

 

[AN2]

A problem is that by roc_'s standards almost all the Catholic Saints were "Antisemites" and that is before we get into cases such as Saint John Chrysostom who no Catholic could dream of rejecting but who really did go too far when it came to the Jews. He probably thinks that by adopting "roc speak" he is being really smart, so clever and really sticking it to the "Lefties" and the "Muzzies" but he is sawing the branch he is sitting on in many ways through indulging in this talk.

And the whole "don't be a racist" is a virtue signalling that very many people will see as being so insincere as to be creepy. There is no need for him to mention Jews or discuss race- a lot of the time a discreet silence is the best thing in this life.

He said that 40% of Jews voted for Trump in New York (little factoid 4 u)

Last I checked, Jews voted for Trump about as much as black women did

Again, he's the "Israeli right" (as per the article), a 'centrist', anti-nationalist. No wonder he's at liberty to walk the halls of Montrose

 

[AN2]

View: https://t.me/WhiteAustraliaFirst2/340

 

[clarke-connolly]

View: https://t.me/WhiteAustraliaFirst2/340

Out of the mouths of comedians = = Comes Truth !

 

[SwordOfStZip]

He said that 40% of Jews voted for Trump in New York (little factoid 4 u)

Last I checked, Jews voted for Trump about as much as black women did

Again, he's the "Israeli right" (as per the article), a 'centrist', anti-nationalist. No wonder he's at liberty to walk the halls of Montrose

There are lies, damned lies and statistics someone once said but given that statistics about Jews are in a whole different category of falsehood again. Jews in the West we will tell you that their antipathy to censuses, etc goes back to the Russian Empire and Congress Poland but this is not true, if you remember in the Bible God freaks out at David for taking a census which is seen there as a very grave sin. A couple of days ago I was reading a piece written in the early 1950s which reckoned that about ten per cent of the United States than was Jewish. This gets them into trouble as regards the Shoah because according to pre-Nazi statistics there were not even six million Jews in the Axis controlled lands before the Hitlerites took control of them- but of course official statistics always, often quite starkly, underestimate the number of Jews.

What is true is that a lot of Orthodox Jews, both Modern Orthodox and Haredi, just ADORE Trump, fanatically so, but they are in the minority of a those identifying as Jewish in the United States and there are still more people who call themselves Jews who see Trump as a harbinger of "genocidal White Christian Nationalism", blah, blah, blah, etc.

 

[AN2]

 

[SwordOfStZip]

View attachment 6637

Where did you get those pie charts?

Also what exactly do they mean by White+Jewish there- I am assuming that 64 per cent of major donors are not Jews of Colour and only 3.6 per cent of them are "Ashkenazi"? The percentage of Indian donors is interesting given that there would be more people of Chinese, Japanese and Korean stock in the USA still than Indians but only the latter show up on the charts.

 

[AN2]

Where did you get those pie charts?

View: https://t.me/racerealismchannel/347

Also what exactly do they mean by White+Jewish there- I am assuming that 64 per cent of major donors are not Jews of Colour and only 3.6 per cent of them are "Ashkenazi"? The percentage of Indian donors is interesting given that there would be more people of Chinese, Japanese and Korean stock in the USA still than Indians but only the latter show up on the charts.

I'm not sure to be honest

 

[SwordOfStZip]

It is ironic that most people consider Jews of European stock to be not just "White" but the "Whitest of Whites" apart from a large slab of such Jews themselves and of course people who call themselves White Nationalists.

 

[AN2]

It is ironic that most people consider Jews of European stock to be not just "White" but the "Whitest of Whites" apart from a large slab of such Jews themselves and of course people who call themselves White Nationalists.

I'm not sure that many Jews consider themselves white, certainly WNs don't think of them that way by and large

 

[AN2]

 

[AN2]

GB News ("pro-Israeli right") -


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r5IXQlqYAvY

 

[AN2]

This made me chuckle

@Mods vs Roc_ers opined about the impartiality of the Unz website with a blurb about it -

Post in thread 'Israel-Palestine it's Endgame?' https://politics.ie/threads/israel-palestine-its-endgame.288554/post-14191612

Failing of course to link to the source of the blurb.. That bastion of impartiality, rationalwiki

The Unz Review

The Unz Review is an alt-right webshite which describes itself as an alternative to the mainstream media.[2] It contains articles and content that promote white nationalism, the international Jewish conspiracy, Holocaust denial, the white genocide conspiracy theory, racialism pseudoscience and...

rationalwiki.org

 

[AN2]

The "pro-Israeli right" strikes again..


View: https://x.com/JoelWBerry/status/1859221344874881101

Auron says here I am an ethnonationalist for Israel, but not anyone else.

Auron is either a bad-faith snake, or he isn’t as smart as I thought he was. For the sake of brotherly kindness I’ll assume the latter. I’m not against a certain kind of nationalism that takes culture, beliefs, and character into account. America should be for Americans, and we should start defining exactly what that means because right now things are a mess.

What I’m against is white nationalism. I think skin color is a stupid thing to base “ethnos” on. And because I believe skin color is irrelevant, Auron will straw-man me and say that must mean I believe America is just an “economic zone” or “tax farm” or slander me as a multiculturalist.

Assuming he isn’t stupid, the reason he presents a false choice between racial “purity” and multiculturalism is because he believes culture is inextricably linked to race, or as many of his followers always tell me on here, “culture is downstream from race.” I disagree with that statement. I think it’s not only wrong scientifically, I think it is a godless error of materialism that denies the Imago Dei and reduces men to products of their DNA.

America as a creedal nation is a great idea I truly believe in. The problem is we haven’t taught, passed down, enforced, or required allegiance to the creed—and that needs to change.

As for Zionism, if Auron is so butt-hurt about Jews getting to build a nation as a refuge for Abraham’s physical descendants, he should tell his white nationalist and tradcath followers to stop persecuting and murdering them in every country outside Israel where they try to reside and assimilate. I also reject the premise that Israel is purely ethnonationalist. It’s a home for Jews, but it’s not exclusive to Jews. That said, I don’t blame them for being a bit cautious since everyone keeps trying to kill them.

And yes, I maintain that Christian bonds make us closer than any other bonds. That even goes for wokies like Phil Vischer and Auron, assuming they are real Christians.


Joel Berry is the editor of The Babylon Bee, a conservative Christian news satire website

 

[SwordOfStZip]

I much prefer Peter Hitchens to McGuirk I have to say.

 

[AN2]

The "pro-Israeli right" strikes again..


View: https://x.com/JoelWBerry/status/1859221344874881101

Auron says here I am an ethnonationalist for Israel, but not anyone else.

Auron is either a bad-faith snake, or he isn’t as smart as I thought he was. For the sake of brotherly kindness I’ll assume the latter. I’m not against a certain kind of nationalism that takes culture, beliefs, and character into account. America should be for Americans, and we should start defining exactly what that means because right now things are a mess.

What I’m against is white nationalism. I think skin color is a stupid thing to base “ethnos” on. And because I believe skin color is irrelevant, Auron will straw-man me and say that must mean I believe America is just an “economic zone” or “tax farm” or slander me as a multiculturalist.

Assuming he isn’t stupid, the reason he presents a false choice between racial “purity” and multiculturalism is because he believes culture is inextricably linked to race, or as many of his followers always tell me on here, “culture is downstream from race.” I disagree with that statement. I think it’s not only wrong scientifically, I think it is a godless error of materialism that denies the Imago Dei and reduces men to products of their DNA.

America as a creedal nation is a great idea I truly believe in. The problem is we haven’t taught, passed down, enforced, or required allegiance to the creed—and that needs to change.

As for Zionism, if Auron is so butt-hurt about Jews getting to build a nation as a refuge for Abraham’s physical descendants, he should tell his white nationalist and tradcath followers to stop persecuting and murdering them in every country outside Israel where they try to reside and assimilate. I also reject the premise that Israel is purely ethnonationalist. It’s a home for Jews, but it’s not exclusive to Jews. That said, I don’t blame them for being a bit cautious since everyone keeps trying to kill them.

And yes, I maintain that Christian bonds make us closer than any other bonds. That even goes for wokies like Phil Vischer and Auron, assuming they are real Christians.


Joel Berry is the editor of The Babylon Bee, a conservative Christian news satire website

Reply from "The Distributist"..


View: https://x.com/greeneman6/status/1859274629875106189

We can endlessly argue over the definition of “ethno-nationalism”. But what is clear for pretty much everyone looking at this problem is the following:

1. If a white-gentile country had the border/immigration/demographic policy that Israel does, it would be called “far right ethnonationalist” by modern conservatives.
2. Such a immigration/demographic policy would be considered historically normal in Christian countries before 1900
3. Any modern first world country that doesn’t have such a discriminating immigration policy will imminently be demographically overwhelmed by the third world and its culture replaced.

With these truths considered, what is the real debate about “ethno-nationalism” about? Is it just about “once in a blue moon” exceptions that should have no-bearing on policy and will have no bearing on overall demographics?


I've posted stuff before from both Auron MacIntyre and The Distributist who are Christian commentators

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Oh Tommy Tommy!
Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Rob-in-son.
Oh Tommy Tommy!
Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Rob-in-son.
Oh Tommy Tommy!
Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Rob-in-son.
Oh Tommy Tommy!
Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Rob-in-son.