The Gemma Thread.

[scolairebocht]

Well Fishalt what they usually say, or sometimes say anyway, in those situations is that the soul, if they live a good life, will live out their existence in Limbo. That is technically part of hell, but its not so bad, not continual torments or anything like that.

For example those good people that existed before Jesus - remember nobody gets to heaven except through Him - went to Limbo, including even the great Old Testament prophets. Thats why when Jesus died he went directly to hell, as recorded in the Creed for example. He went to Hell, to Limbo, to bring those prophets to heaven with him.

 

[scolairebocht]

I don't wish to be disrespectful Myles, but are you really well acquainted with Christian Doctrine? Many intellectual disciplines can seem daunting, or self contradictory even, until one has studied them properly.

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

I'm well enough acquainted Sir. But I really need not be if the Doctrine itself is nonsensical and easily taken apart.

 

[scolairebocht]

Oh right fair enough, I guess you have read lots of theological works for example.

But its true sometimes it can be confusing and requires a lot of study to figure out. But anyway if you did study it in depth you might find some of your questions answered. For example if you studied the Book of Job, and what the Magisterium says about it, you might not then be surprised at bad things happening to good people.

 

[Fishalt]

Well Fishalt what they usually say, or sometimes say anyway, in those situations is that the soul, if they live a good life, will live out their existence in Limbo. That is technically part of hell, but its not so bad, not continual torments or anything like that.

For example those good people that existed before Jesus - remember nobody gets to heaven except through Him - went to Limbo, including even the great Old Testament prophets. Thats why when Jesus died he went directly to hell, as recorded in the Creed for example. He went to Hell, to Limbo, to bring those prophets to heaven with him.

That's still quite bad though, isn't it? The way I understand Limbo is that it's a kind of period of penance. Reliving your worst moments over and over.
Hardly seems fair, Certainly doesn't seem like the work of a benign, loving God.

 

[scolairebocht]

No, I think you could be mixing it up with Purgatory. Purgatory is very much a penance, actually you suffer a lot there but become purged of the stain of sin eventually, and then you can get to heaven.

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Oh right fair enough, I guess you have read lots of theological works for example. But its true sometimes it can be confusing and requires a lot of study to figure out. But anyway if you did study it in depth you might find some of your questions answered. For example if you studied the Book of Job, and what the Magisterium says about it, you might not then be surprised at bad things happening to good people.

I'm quite familiar with Jobe (that's the way I spell it ) and his sufferings Sir.

I also know that this "test" theory is an attempt by man to explain the madness of this World. Really its not that impressive an effort. Probably something you'd expect an adolescent with moderate intelligence to come up with. Aquinas-esque it ain't.

Haven't you got something a bit more meaty we can get our teeth into?

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

No, I think you could be mixing it up with Purgatory.

I too thought Limbo and Purgatory were the same thing.

 

[Declan]

What is the allegation, that this woman had two abortions???

 

[Professor]

You know Professor in the Catholic faith life on earth is a trial, a test, which if you pass it means you enter a paradise known as heaven. Catholicism does not preach any kind of paradise on earth, that good people go through difficulties on earth is entirely the way its supposed to be in the Catholic faith.

So many contexts to what you say, amazing! All due respect and from my basic perspective I see the original and early Christians certainly didn't get much opportunity to enjoy earthly paradise due to being persecuted by the Romans etc.
To believe and practice the faith was a trial, a test to survive and prosper amongst the other established religions of the day.
We are all civilised with equal rights these days but sure in the past there were holy wars to be fought and in other scenarios where Catholics were impoverished, and outlawed, the worst of times to be endured by the poor, from cradle to grave so for sure they needed and had something which kept them fearless and strong.

In the case of untimely death, the tragedy and trauma of a father/mother being killed in action was much reduced for them & family knowing that the deceased was now in good hands paradise where they would all meet again someday, which could have been be expected on the morrow back then, today too . . . .

 

[scolairebocht]

Yes but you can never presume that anybody got to heaven, except actual saints. We are told that prayers can make a difference though, for how long you spend in Purgatory anyway, in contrast a person going to hell is unfortunately beyond help then.

 

[Fishalt]

Yes but you can never presume that anybody got to heaven, except actual saints. We are told that prayers can make a difference though, for how long you spend in Purgatory anyway, in contrast a person going to hell is unfortunately beyond help then.

Do you think Siddhārtha Gautama (The Buddha) is in hell?

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Yes but you can never presume that anybody got to heaven, except actual saints. We are told that prayers can make a difference though,.

Who told you that?

 

[scolairebocht]

Yes I believe Buddha is, and Mohammad and Luther.

 

[scolairebocht]

The whole idea of a funeral is to attract prayers, and a mass, the highest of prayers, to help the soul hopefully go to heaven. The prayers are all important.

 

[Fishalt]

Yes I believe Buddha is, and Mohammad and Luther.

Siddhārtha Gautama lived and died about 500 years before the birth of Christ.

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

This has gone downhill quite quickly since Ms Catherine gave Bocht that 'like'.

 

[scolairebocht]

I mean I think they are in hell.

 

[Fishalt]

I mean I think they are in hell.

The concept of Hell, as you currently understand it, did not exist during the time of the Buddha. Christianity did not exist during that time. Does God retroactively punish everybody in history who did not pledge fealty to him before he made his existence, and doctrine, known to the world?

 

[scolairebocht]

I am just trying to explain the Christian religion, because its surprising how little Irish people know about it.
The opening to heaven came about through Jesus, but I believe hell has always been there, since the fall of Adam and Eve.