The Gemma Thread.

valamhic

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What is the allegation, that this woman had two abortions???
In that case Gemma should have said she had two abortions, she said she murdered two of her babies.

The question will be whether she did have two or even one abortion? If she did not then it is defamation simple.

If she did have abortions, the question will be whether Gemma's words made that clear. Either way if Gemma was
doing this she should have chosen her words carefully.
 

Wolf

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There are the same thing. Two horrors like Wolfe and Jambo.
Did you get your grants/blood money from the EU for the 10 acres of bog you were left this year?
Nationalist, my arshe, just another one sucking of the tits of Brussels!!!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Tiger

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Again, I ask you to account for the 7YO child living in an uncontacted Tribe in the Amazon. What contingency plan does God have in place for such a circumstance?
The situation that you are describing here falls under what is known as ‘invincible ignorance

Explainer here:

 

Tiger

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Do you not think Hell seems like a very extreme punishment, given the lack of available evidence for the existence of God? Why can't the non-believers simply cease to exist? Why must they be tormented in excruciating agony for all eternity? Again, does this sound like the actions of a loving God? This does not sound like love to me.
The existence of Hell is perfectly logical when we consider natural justice. Like our prisons on earth, there must be a place to go for those who live perpetually against the rule of law or in the case of Hell in persistent rejection of God. There has to be some place for evil people to go.

Even on earth we get a sense of the punishment deserved for evil acts. Acts, which can only take a moment to commit, which however are deserving of someone spending the rest of their lives in prison.

God, being infinitely just and merciful, offers every person the opportunity for repentance and forgiveness during their earthly life. However if someone freely chooses to reject God and persist in a state of mortal sin until death, they have separated themselves from God’s Grace and choose to remain in that state for eternity. The permanence of Hell is the result of human choices rather than a punishment arbitrarily imposed by God.

Most people aren’t saints, so it also makes sense that those not deserving of Hell (but also who are not saints) have somewhere to go. So in Gods mercy, this is where purgatory comes in. A place where people are purified to be capable of deserving of eternity in Heaven.



In terms of suffering on earth, here’s a good talk by John Lennox. He points out that Jesus Himself showed us the purpose of suffering from his own death.

 
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Declan

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Abortion can be viewed as murder no different than a person getting charged with two murders if a pregnant woman is killed.

It is just a case of "lawfare" to shut people up.

Roll on the case and put the woman on the stand.
 

Tiger

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Abortion can be viewed as murder no different than a person getting charged with two murders if a pregnant woman is killed.

It is just a case of "lawfare" to shut people up.

Roll on the case and put the woman on the stand.
Yup, it’s effectively ‘legal’ murder. However murder is an accurate word for it, as it’s the intentional ending of a living baby.

Any good legal team, could have the opposite legal team tied up in knots.
 
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Tuco Salamanca

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I am just trying to explain the Christian religion, because its surprising how little Irish people know about it.
The opening to heaven came about through Jesus, but I believe hell has always been there, since the fall of Adam and Eve.

Really?
The Jews didn't believe in heaven or hell, and they still don't. Nor did the early Christians.
These are Greek ideas, first articulated in Plato's Republic (the Greeks at the time of Homer had an entirely different belief)

Like the Jews, the early Christians believed in a physical resurrection of the body. The afterlife was very much experienced, physically, on this planet.

 

Tuco Salamanca

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The concept of Hell, as you currently understand it, did not exist during the time of the Buddha. Christianity did not exist during that time. Does God retroactively punish everybody in history who did not pledge fealty to him before he made his existence, and doctrine, known to the world?

The Christian version of hell didn't even exist during the time of Paul.
 

Tiger

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Really?
The Jews didn't believe in heaven or hell, and they still don't. Nor did the early Christians.
This is wrong.

When the disciples (who were Jewish) asked Jesus (a Jew) how to pray, he taught them ‘The Lords Prayer’. The first line of that prayer is “Our Father who art in Heaven”.

On the cross, He also promised to take the thief on the cross with him into a paradise or heaven with him.

There was a belief in the afterlife in ancient Hebrew Scriptures. They believed the dead went to ‘Sheol’ which was a realm of the dead to await the Messiah.

Christ’s death on the cross released the souls in Sheol to be able to go to heaven. That why the Apostles creed speaks of Christ descending into Hell (to release them). There are 4 parts to Hell. As explained here





 
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Z

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The Christian version of hell didn't even exist during the time of Paul.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the "Christian version of hell" but the you had the Book (s) of Enoch before St Paul within the Old Testament Church if you are going to dismiss indications of the doctrine in the Book of Isaiah ( Isaiah 33:10-16 for example) and the Book of Daniel but besides that the Zoroastrian doctrine of the Last Things is extremely similar to the Christian one and indeed a lot of secular criticial scholarship claims that the Essenes and the Pharisees got the concept of Heaven and Hell from the Iranians. Of course there is also the sectarian material that was found in the "Dead Sea Scrolls" at Qumran.
 

Professor

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The whole idea of a funeral is to attract prayers, and a mass, the highest of prayers, to help the soul hopefully go to heaven. The prayers are all important.
Like the Jews, the early Christians believed in a physical resurrection of the body. The afterlife was very much experienced, physically, on this planet.

As I see it you've both substantiated my pagan beliefs to some extent with what's being suggested above.
Let me suggest that it's the children of the deceased who become the living soul and are the After(parents) Life(new and possibly everlasting so long as there is pro-creation).

The many prayers at the funeral are directed to the deceased, family, parish & God who will protect and cherish the new life to the highest possible degree (For the worthy who've earned their positions and assurances)

The deceased died happy after a life's work in the parish bore heavenly fruit which will live on - Everlasting, provided that . . . Gods helpers on earth will look after things, as is known they do when all concerned follow the word & ways of the Lord.

:unsure:
 
Z

Zipporah's Flint

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Who told you that?

In 2 Maccabees 12:38-46, Judas Maccabeus orders that sacrifices be offered in the Temple in Jerusalem for slain Jewish soldiers who had worn heathenish amulets ("good-luck charms" of some description). Now Prods, unlike Catholics, the Orthodox and the Ethiopians, etc do not accept that Book as part of the Sacred Canon but most do accept it as a historical record and so it demonstrates that certainly those in the Old Testament Church who believed in the Resurrection of the Dead (we are told the Sadduccess did not but we have no remaining stuff exclusively of them according to most scholars though there is an argument that the Books of Maccabees are from their camp) also believed in prayer for the dead- and of course Christ no where condemns prayer for the dead as an error in the Gospels.
 
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Tiger

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This interview about an NDE (near death experience) of a Buddhist who committed suicide and went to Hell is extremely interesting.

 

Tuco Salamanca

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This is wrong.

When the disciples (who were Jewish) asked Jesus (a Jew) how to pray, he taught them ‘The Lords Prayer’. The first line of that prayer is “Our Father who art in Heaven”.

Mark, the earliest canonical gospel, conveniently forgets to make any mention of "the lord's prayer". Makes you wonder if the authors of Matthew and Luke, writing decades later, added some "theological flourishes" to fit their evolving Jesus narrative.

And "Sheol" wasn't some other wordly realm, it was just some place where bodies awaited bodily resurrection - there is no evidence of early Christians deviating significantly from this belief and believing in a transmigration of souls to some otherworldly realm. St Paul, for instance, makes no mention of Heaven or Hell.

As for the apostle's creed, it wasn't written until the forth century CE.
 
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Tuco Salamanca

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This interview about an NDE (near death experience) of a Buddhist who committed suicide and went to Hell is extremely interesting.



Everyone's NDE is different. Many formerly religious people lose their faith after an NDE.





 

Tuco Salamanca

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I don't know exactly what you mean by the "Christian version of hell" but the you had the Book (s) of Enoch before St Paul within the Old Testament Church if you are going to dismiss indications of the doctrine in the Book of Isaiah ( Isaiah 33:10-16 for example) and the Book of Daniel but besides that the Zoroastrian doctrine of the Last Things is extremely similar to the Christian one and indeed a lot of secular criticial scholarship claims that the Essenes and the Pharisees got the concept of Heaven and Hell from the Iranians. Of course there is also the sectarian material that was found in the "Dead Sea Scrolls" at Qumran.

Take up your issue with Bart Ehrmann.
 

Tiger

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Everyone's NDE is different. Many formerly religious people lose their faith after an NDE.






Yeah I went through a stage last year of listening to a ton of these. What’s clear is that there are genuine ones and ones where people have clearly made it up and are trying to sell books.

The majority of the evangelical American ones are spoofers. Amongst all the chancers, there is a small cohort that ring through.
 

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