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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tiger" data-source="post: 143798" data-attributes="member: 353">For the record, this is your 5th (or is it 6th) complete re-write of this response, pivoting this way and that, scrambling around trying to avoid looking like a spoofer. It's as clear as day that you have absolutely no familiarity with any of the NDE studies and why they are challenging.As for the paper link above; congratulations, you can paste citations, but unfortunately comprehension remains optional. Literally every reply that you've given so far, demonstrates that you have no idea about any of these NDE cases. There's literally nothing in that paper that undermines the NDE phenomenon.The paper itself confirms what I’ve been saying: EEG and other neurophysiologic tests are supportive tools, not the definition of consciousness or clinical death. Clinical criteria: coma, absent brainstem reflexes, apnea; remain the gold standard. EEG is neither definitive nor required in most cases; it’s a convenience for equivocal situations.Here is what you are missing entirely: veridical NDEs occur in patients who meet full clinical criteria for brain death. Pam Reynolds’ brain was drained of blood and cooled to 60°F, her EEG flatlined, yet she reported verified surgical details. Blind-from-birth patients see for the first time. People perceive conversations or events that occurred outside their sensory field. These experiences happen when EEG, perfusion studies, and other ancillary measurements show zero cortical activity, which is exactly when your citations say the brain should be incapable of consciousness.Again, yet another demonstration of not being familiar with the subject being discussed and instead tries desperately to pivot; playing with ‘tech specs’ instead of addressing the phenomenon itself. Multimodal EEG, CT, MRI; congratulations, you passed first-year neurology. Meanwhile, patients with flatlined EEGs, bloodless brains, or lifelong blindness are still reporting verifiable perceptions they could not possibly know. imaging doesn’t change that.You’re not debating evidence; you’re lazily waving gadgets to hide that your materialist dogma can’t explain a single one of these NDEsSays the guy who tried to refute all NDEs with research around brain activity with cardiac arrest patients in the 20 seconds before and after death as recently as a few hours ago <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing    :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/6.5/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" />The research has indeed progressed; but not in the direction you're suggesting. This article simply references a proposal for a unified neuroscientific model explaining near-death experiences by identifying physiological patterns such as oxygen deprivation, increased carbon dioxide, and disrupted brain energy metabolism. These factors fail to account for the structured, verifiable NDEs reported during periods of absent brain activity.Haha - Ah yes, AWARE II:  the ‘answer’ you think ends the discussion. Let’s unpack that shall we? - 126 cardiac arrest survivors were studied, and while a new category labeled ‘delusions’ was noted, the key fact is that veridical perception; the actual hallmark of NDEs; was almost nonexistent in this cohort. Only 1 of 28 patients identified the auditory stimulus, and none identified the visual targets. In other words, the study did not replicate the veridical perception cases that are the core evidence for consciousness beyond brain activity.Furthermore, the mention of ‘normal EEG activity emerging as long as 35–60 minutes into CPR’ is not the same as consciousness occurring in a flatlined, clinically dead brain. These were patients with ongoing resuscitation, not prolonged complete cortical inactivity. You are conflating transient or partial brain activity with the documented NDE cases that occur during total cortical silence, hypothermia, or even drained-brain scenarios like Pam Reynolds.So your ‘answer’ doesn’t answer anything. It confirms exactly what I’ve been saying: mere brain activity is not sufficient to explain structured, veridical, cross-verified NDEs. The hallmark features; detailed, corroborated awareness when the brain should be incapable of consciousness; remain entirely unexplained by AWARE II. The evidence still stands, and your attempt to wield this study as a rebuttal only highlights your misreading and desperation.What you need to do; is to actually go and study the subject properly before scrambling around for any link you can google that you think confirms your a priori bias.</blockquote>

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