Atheism, and the docility towards the state of modern Irish people

scolairebocht

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Finglas anti mass migration protest 2 Sept 2023, smaller.jpg


If you ever find yourself with your back to locked barrack gates trying to stop immigrant buses getting in, or marching down North Dublin streets trying to act in solidarity with others doing the same thing, you can notice, at least at times, one abiding sensation. It can get cold, wet and maybe boring.

So the time honoured solution is to pass the time by debating politics with some similar, cold wet and bored flotsam of humanity, and there the great question is sure to arise. Where is everybody else? Why isn’t there more people coming out for these things, when will the Irish people wake up etc etc? And the answers will be many and various, fluoride in the water, RTE and the media brainwashing generally, even the education system nowadays, people afraid of blackmail retaliation by the state, with regard to jobs or even if its just applying for state benefits or housing, again, etc etc.

Who knows, some or all of that could be true but I would like to put forward a rarer explanation, and that is atheism. Obviously, under the influence of the endlessly hyped ‘scandals’, more and more Irish people have become atheist, or at least practical atheists in the sense that they never let religious ideas interfere in their everyday lives. They just don’t think in terms of the ten commandments and trying to get to heaven, its just not a ‘serious’ subject that way, and that could even be true of many practicing ‘Catholics’. But the effect of this on Irish society is not, I don’t think, properly understood by everybody.

One effect, is that it destroys the objectivity of people who have lost their faith in this manner. Yes, objectivity, I defy you to have heard that one about religious people, because the opposite is also true, people with great religious faith are often described as very objective in the way that they can look at the wider world. For example Bishop Richard Williamson, on the Saints and Scholars Podcast, was asked not long ago what was his abiding impression of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, widely considered a very saintly man, and that was his reply, the Archbishop’s great objectivity.

In trying to explain this maybe an analogy might help, we will begin by introducing Muggins exhibit A, who has great religious faith: He is reading the Irish Times, including the editorials and all the other ‘preachy’ articles of which therein there are so many. But for him the question of what is right and wrong, is tied up completely with his religion, he tries to live up to the 10 commandments and if he falls down on it, and we all do, he goes to confession, which is where he seeks forgiveness for committing sins according to this, unchanging, religious yardstick. So consequently nothing in what he reads in that Irish Times in any way tells him what should be right and wrong. Yes he can read where a person has committed a murder, for example, and that is bad obviously, but its not that he took from the paper the idea that was bad, that he took from his religious education, what used to be called an ‘informed conscience’.

Now consider Muggins exhibit B, reading his Irish Times. Probably in Ireland he might have started off, at least to a degree, a Christian, but now that is all burned out of him. He has ‘grown up’ and doesn’t believe in that ‘airy fairy’ nonsense known as Catholicism. The crucial thing to understand here is that you don’t stand still in that state. As a human being, a yardstick of right and wrong in your head, is totally essential, you don’t get to function without it. So where does he now get this? Well now he is reading his paper in a more serious way, there is a lot there about what he should and shouldn’t do and he is now thinking more seriously about it, he doesn’t take or leave it like Muggins A does. So hence he is not nearly as objective when he considers the various issues. His mind is now searching – he might be unconscious of it himself – for the ‘authoritative’ angle, for somebody to tell him what is right and wrong on a particular issue, not that he decides for himself like ‘A’ can.

This might seem confusing but it is in fact a huge issue in the human psyche, I believe, and one that explains a lot. Mostly people who have lost their religion will now attach a deep sense of right and wrong to the law, and to the establishment consensus generally, because they need that outside yardstick of right and wrong that the theist doesn’t. The simple point then is that if you run the state, which obviously makes the laws, and the ‘establishment voice’ generally, like for example in science, then you have captured the minds of these people. Hence the absolutely brainwashing level of Church bashing that generations of Irish people are living through, the deep state knows exactly what it is doing here, atheism is the elixir that holds the thing together for them.

If you look for it you will find a lot of evidence for this attitude everywhere. For example not long ago I was talking briefly to the editor of a local newspaper about their Covid and vaccine coverage. He explained that they just highlighted the official word from the Department of Health, and that was the end of the short debate, to be a mouth piece for the state was what was ‘right’ in his mind.

It also explains why you can have so many circular arguments with people. In relation to the vaccine for example, mostly people took it because officialdom told them it was ‘right’ so to do. Even very intelligent, very educated people spent absolutely none of their time finding out about death rates for Covid or how much testing was done for the vaccine, they were pulling out of the debate only the instruction in their ongoing quest to do what is ‘right’. They never actually considered the supposed ‘science’ in the first place, so it was pointless arguing with them about that.

That, I think anyway, is one of the unheralded reasons why Irish people are so slow to ‘wake up’ as it were. The scary thing though is not this effect now, the real question is what happens if their yardstick of the law or the establishment generally, collapses, as obviously happened in the French and Russian Revolutions for example. Will they go mad with an orgy of violence like obviously many of the elites in those countries did then?
 

Declan

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I am looking forward to reading this at leisure. But when will the moment of crisis be??...
 

Zipporah's Flint

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Something that is counter-intuitive to me is that surely if you are an atheist because you would not believe that you personally live on after the death of the body you would be especially concerned about living through kids, grand kids, etc of your own in particular and your folk, tribe, nation, etc in general? However in real life it doesn't seem to work out that way at all nearly all of the time when people adopt atheism at least as regards Western peoples.
 

scolairebocht

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Definitely I think the outlines of the NWO you can see by 2030, which means they will have packed in their various artificial crises before then, but more specifically I don't know.
 

willow

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Something that is counter-intuitive to me is that surely if you are an atheist because you would not believe that you personally live on after the death of the body you would be especially concerned about living through kids, grand kids, etc of your own in particular and your folk, tribe, nation, etc in general? However in real life it doesn't seem to work out that way at all nearly all of the time when people adopt atheism at least as regards Western peoples.
The Western version of atheism that has replaced inconvenient 'faith', is a barely disguised form of selfish consumerism. Look at any shopping centre on Sunday.
Introspection and quiet reflection has been replaced by a rat race of accumulating 'stuff' mass produced to fill artificially created needs.
The puppeteers have created these needs, and the propaganda to destroy people's psyches over many decades - Bernays published in the 30's? Not sure...
The empty vessels they have created are ready to be filled with any manner of detrimental things, and critical thinking capabilities have sadly long departed.
Nanny State has come to the rescue - even if this will mean the return to a feudal system with a total lack of freedom.
I personally am not sure how I can live in such a world, but Ihave no clue how to stop this juggernaut. So many NPC empties.
 

Zipporah's Flint

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The Western version of atheism that has replaced inconvenient 'faith', is a barely disguised form of selfish consumerism. Look at any shopping centre on Sunday.
Introspection and quiet reflection has been replaced by a rat race of accumulating 'stuff' mass produced to fill artificially created needs.
The puppeteers have created these needs, and the propaganda to destroy people's psyches over many decades - Bernays published in the 30's? Not sure...
The empty vessels they have created are ready to be filled with any manner of detrimental things, and critical thinking capabilities have sadly long departed.
Nanny State has come to the rescue - even if this will mean the return to a feudal system with a total lack of freedom.
I personally am not sure how I can live in such a world, but Ihave no clue how to stop this juggernaut. So many NPC empties.

Well with the Covid thing the hysteria that came from the constantly changing official narrative was clearly a psychological side effect of atheism- not believing in a ultimately good Power in charge of the cosmos leading to a pyschological need to believe that those in charge of your society are ultimately good.

Also from the Covid I got a new respect for Orthodox Jewish and Islamic Religious Law, a lot of which, if not most of which, just would seem silly to your average Westerner- psychologically for these atheists obeying scrupulously the Halakah so to speak handed down by the Minstry of Health really did serve to re-enforce for them the idea that the Elites cared about them, even loved them.

The consumerism thing though I don't know. I have a vain and greedy part of my soul which I constantly need to check but if I just let it run rampant (my sister would probably tell you that I do let it so, and my better half would question whether I do always try to keep it in check) but that does not take away mortality- and probably the vain often have an especially strong sense of mortality. Wanting something of yourself to live on after you I would have thought is univerally human.
 

SeekTheFairLand

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The Irish people for the vast majority of the 800 year of British occupation acquiesced in their servitude. In conditions that were much worse, materially, than today. Atheism was the rare exception for most of that period too.

The church helped the British state to keep the Irish in line. The Bishops of the church used their control of the afterlife to threaten the Irish with punishment that even the British couldnt deliver. Like Dr Moriarty of Kerry who claimed that 'Hell was not hot enough, and eternity is not long enough' for the Fenian rebels.

In recent weeks the All Ireland primate Eamon Martin 'repeating his longstanding appeal for "young people from the Catholic community" to still consider a career in policing and expressing his "unequivocal support" for all those who serve".

These are the police who have imposed Covid restrictions, who drive the plantation of Ireland and will use violence to crush those who dare to defy further implementation of Agenda 22/30 measures. The Spiritual leaders support them unequivocally.

Our parish graveyard still has covid age signage hanging off its gates.

The liberal atheist State may bash, and encourage the bashing of the Church. But the Church enjoys it and goes along with it.

The author may question why the people are not rising. Its not atheism, its not the media. The reason is its the Irish people he expects action from. But even as one of our most revered rebels admits 'six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms'.That is a poor record considering. And Pearse is hyping the efforts that were Robert Emmett, Young Ireland, and even the Fenian Rebellion.

So expecting a mass reaction of the Irish is wishful thinking. History proves it. Holding placards is designed to do what? Get the support of people who are not bothered so far? What do you expect these people to then do when they have not done anything so far?

Irish rebels of previous generations did not rely on placards, protests and white-line pickets. That is not the Irish way of dealing with the enemy.
 

willow

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The Irish people for the vast majority of the 800 year of British occupation acquiesced in their servitude. In conditions that were much worse, materially, than today. Atheism was the rare exception for most of that period too.

The church helped the British state to keep the Irish in line. The Bishops of the church used their control of the afterlife to threaten the Irish with punishment that even the British couldnt deliver. Like Dr Moriarty of Kerry who claimed that 'Hell was not hot enough, and eternity is not long enough' for the Fenian rebels.

In recent weeks the All Ireland primate Eamon Martin 'repeating his longstanding appeal for "young people from the Catholic community" to still consider a career in policing and expressing his "unequivocal support" for all those who serve".

These are the police who have imposed Covid restrictions, who drive the plantation of Ireland and will use violence to crush those who dare to defy further implementation of Agenda 22/30 measures. The Spiritual leaders support them unequivocally.

Our parish graveyard still has covid age signage hanging off its gates.

The liberal atheist State may bash, and encourage the bashing of the Church. But the Church enjoys it and goes along with it.

The author may question why the people are not rising. Its not atheism, its not the media. The reason is its the Irish people he expects action from. But even as one of our most revered rebels admits 'six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms'.That is a poor record considering. And Pearse is hyping the efforts that were Robert Emmett, Young Ireland, and even the Fenian Rebellion.

So expecting a mass reaction of the Irish is wishful thinking. History proves it. Holding placards is designed to do what? Get the support of people who are not bothered so far? What do you expect these people to then do when they have not done anything so far?

Irish rebels of previous generations did not rely on placards, protests and white-line pickets. That is not the Irish way of dealing with the enemy.
You are referring to the excesses of the Civil war? If this kind of violence were to start up now we'd have Blue Helmets beating us into oblivion. Just the excuse the ptb need.. they have plenty boots on the ground already. Our only chance is mass peaceful resistance. The simply awesome power of the word 'no'. And I personally like the blade runners in London. Sabotage against hostile armaments is legitimate.
 

SeekTheFairLand

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You are referring to the excesses of the Civil war? If this kind of violence were to start up now we'd have Blue Helmets beating us into oblivion. Just the excuse the ptb need.. they have plenty boots on the ground already. Our only chance is mass peaceful resistance. The simply awesome power of the word 'no'. And I personally like the blade runners in London. Sabotage against hostile armaments is legitimate.
The boots on the ground are no more than the boots on the ground nor the savageness of the British. Peace mass resistance of the Land League days, the political organisation of Parnellite days failed in their primary objectives but still far outstrip the numbers participating in today's rebellion. Captain Moonlight strategy should be used. ULEZ blade-runners are heroes.
 

jpc

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I am looking forward to reading this at leisure. But when will the moment of crisis be??...
When the middle class can't pay their bills anymore or get decent eork Their kids can't afford houses or get work.
And they realise no one gives a fuck.
 

Zipporah's Flint

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When the middle class can't pay their bills anymore or get decent eork Their kids can't afford houses or get work.
And they realise no one gives a fuck.

If people do not have hope of change no matter how bad things become there is little chance that they will revolt.
 

SeekTheFairLand

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When the middle class can't pay their bills anymore or get decent eork Their kids can't afford houses or get work.
And they realise no one gives a fuck.
the Irish lived in the squalor of slums, the Irish endured the famine yet Smith O'Brien's rebellion of 1848 was seen off by a few RIC. Collins decapitated the Cairo gang with only a few dedicated volunteers of the Squad. A similar number of dedicated volunteers could cause a major rethink among the outer-rank collaborators of the current regime.
 

scolairebocht

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But I think you misunderstand where sincere theists come from on this? I, at any rate, follow the example of the `Head of the Catholic Church, Our Lord, Whose teachings are extensive and have been followed up by the teachings of His Church, up to about 1960 at any rate. I follow that, the 10 commandments etc, not any instructions from priests or bishops, as such. Nor did Irish statesmen in the past do so very much, if you actually study the thing. Home Rule was not Rome Rule actually.

Bishop Moriarty was particularly complaining about Fenian leaders that were encouraging Irish people to rise out when they were secretly in league with the British authorities, as was true for an incredible number of them, just like the modern IRA unfortunately. Irish people all those generations had a great reputation for political activism and determined opposition to state edicts, generally, contrary to what you say. Its only the last 1 or 2 generations that have lost that, and what changed? They lost the faith is the big one, but also I think wealth has worked against us here in some cases.

I concede though that the modern Church has sold out in some respects, I didn't like that statement from Archbishop Martin on the PSNI and oftentimes they are now apologising for what never happened.
 

scolairebocht

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Btw the picture is from yesterday's anti-mass migration rally in Finglas. They have a new housing estate which was on Council property, and cost the tax payer a fortune, but ended up but with the vast majority of the houses going to non Irish.
 

PlunkettsGhost

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Something that is counter-intuitive to me is that surely if you are an atheist because you would not believe that you personally live on after the death of the body you would be especially concerned about living through kids, grand kids, etc of your own in particular and your folk, tribe, nation, etc in general? However in real life it doesn't seem to work out that way at all nearly all of the time when people adopt atheism at least as regards Western peoples.
atheism is an irrational death cult.
 

jpc

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If people do not have hope of change no matter how bad things become there is little chance that they will revolt.
Expectations and the vanishing of them. Will rid them of complacency.
The middle class in Germany are getting the same treatment now.
Probably a bit further along the curve.
One way or the other we'll see what happens.
Live like mushrooms or in the reality you are bring fucked over by the we mediocrities elected .
 

willow

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If people do not have hope of change no matter how bad things become there is little chance that they will revolt.
I don't think so. If your back is to the absolute wall - there are only two responses. Fight or flight.
Flight has been made impossible by their global approach.
As Icke ( ok, I know, but he makes sense a lot of the time) said,
'When the plandemic was unleashed these monsters entered the room with us. And the lock on the door clicked.' Yes, they have plenty more up their sleeve. But we SEE them now. We aren't in the room with them - THEY are in the room with us.
I am an old woman. But I would love 5 minutes alone with the creature. BG.
 

SeekTheFairLand

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But I think you misunderstand where sincere theists come from on this? I, at any rate, follow the example of the `Head of the Catholic Church, Our Lord, Whose teachings are extensive and have been followed up by the teachings of His Church, up to about 1960 at any rate. I follow that, the 10 commandments etc, not any instructions from priests or bishops, as such. Nor did Irish statesmen in the past do so very much, if you actually study the thing. Home Rule was not Rome Rule actually.

Bishop Moriarty was particularly complaining about Fenian leaders that were encouraging Irish people to rise out when they were secretly in league with the British authorities, as was true for an incredible number of them, just like the modern IRA unfortunately. Irish people all those generations had a great reputation for political activism and determined opposition to state edicts, generally, contrary to what you say. Its only the last 1 or 2 generations that have lost that, and what changed? They lost the faith is the big one, but also I think wealth has worked against us here in some cases.

I concede though that the modern Church has sold out in some respects, I didn't like that statement from Archbishop Martin on the PSNI and oftentimes they are now apologising for what never happened.
The Fenians were in league with the British state? So the Church were saving the people from the actions of the British state? Of course the Church in Ireland was being fed tens of thousands of pounds a year ever since Peel's Maynooth Act in '46, ensuring that Irish priests and bishops were trained in British funded Maynooth and not, as previously, in France.

It was the church who reinforced the British control in Ireland.The Church went along with O'Connell's Emancipation campaign as they were direct beneficiaries but were largely absent for Repeal. They supported the Treaty, the Free State, Pope John Paul II on his bended knees begged the resistance to the British in Ireland to quit. The Church sold out long before the 1960s.
 

scolairebocht

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Many of the senior Fenians were working for the British state, its every true, and you can read many Church works, of that time and a bit later, that articulate that. Also in this book: Brian Nugent, Stair na hÉireann in silico (Corstown, 2021), p.106, you can see a few pictures from the work by Captain Hugh Bertie Campbell Pollard, The Secret Societies of Ireland (London, 1922), p.59-61, where he flat out states that the founder of the Fenians, and its main influence for many decades, James Stephens, was all along working for the British. Captain Pollard worked in Dublin Castle before it fell.

Contrary to what you say, the British/English government was always very anxious to destroy the Catholic Church in Ireland, ever hear of the Penal Laws?
 

SeekTheFairLand

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Many of the senior Fenians were working for the British state, its every true, and you can read many Church works, of that time and a bit later, that articulate that. Also in this book: Brian Nugent, Stair na hÉireann in silico (Corstown, 2021), p.106, you can see a few pictures from the work by Captain Hugh Bertie Campbell Pollard, The Secret Societies of Ireland (London, 1922), p.59-61, where he flat out states that the founder of the Fenians, and its main influence for many decades, James Stephens, was all along working for the British. Captain Pollard worked in Dublin Castle before it fell.

Contrary to what you say, the British/English government was always very anxious to destroy the Catholic Church in Ireland, ever hear of the Penal Laws?
Penal laws that were removed when the Church signalled that it would accept the appointment of its UK bishops by the British government, as per the Established church. [O'Connell rejected that craven submission by the Church] The Emancipation Act of 29 made jack all difference to the lives of the Irish peasantry. And when O'Connell then launched his Repeal campaign the Church leadership were not to be found as Repeal was of no significant benefit to them. Indeed the Church, against O'Connell's appeal not to, went on the Charitable Boards, a British sop designed to undermine the cohesion of the Repeal movement

And I am accept the slight on Stephen's character on the says so of a British intelligence operative? So we have a Catholic Bishop who reckon the Fenians should burn in hell and word of a Brit whose stated role in Ireland in 1919-1922 was to spread 'fake news'. Who reckoned that Thomas McCurtain was shot by the IRB! LOL. Today Pollard would by saying that Putin blew up Nord Stream.
 

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