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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tiger" data-source="post: 123096" data-attributes="member: 353">Ah, the opening insult—a reliable crutch for those short on substantive arguments. Anyhoo,  let’s  proceed.You claim that 'secular nationalism' is an invention of mine, as if nationalism somehow thrives in a vacuum without the moral and cultural cohesion that comes from shared spiritual values. History begs to differ. Nationalism has always been rooted in a unifying ethos—be it religious, cultural, or both. Secularism, on the other hand, fractures nations, reducing them to economic zones governed by fleeting moral trends and the whims of technocrats. If you believe secularism can sustain true nationalism, the burden is on you to prove it.You and your atheist pals have been referring to ‘Christian nationalism’ which you presumably believe is a ‘thing’. Which suggests that there are other forms of nationalism which are different. As for my characterization of the atheists in this chat—anti-Catholic, pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia, dabbling in spiritual tourism—this is not 'projection.' It’s an observation of the values repeatedly espoused here. You and your peers mock religion, advocate for the killing of the unborn and the elderly, and offer no substantive moral framework beyond personal preference. Your worldview aligns almost perfectly with the political elite running the country. The only distinction? You seem to gripe about immigration while otherwise parroting their entire ideological platform. A curious form of 'nationalism,' if you can even call it that.And while you’re correct that the OP didn’t explicitly mention nationalism (it spoke of right wing, which is generally associated with nationalism, with exceptions in Latin America, and the ‘left associated with internationalism) the essence of their argument—concerning leadership, identity, and moral conviction—is inextricably tied to it. My point remains unshaken: atheists, by rejecting transcendent truths, lack the cohesive moral foundation necessary for nationalism. Your secular worldview, rooted in relativism, inherently atomizes society, undermining the unity and shared purpose that nationalism demands.If I’ve mischaracterized the 'nationalism' you champion, then enlighten me: What are its unifying principles? Where is its moral backbone? Who are its leaders in Ireland today?Or does your 'nationalism' amount to nothing more than a flag-waving gesture supported by the same godless technocracy you claim to oppose? Until you answer these questions, your critique is empty—insults masking a void where an argument ought to be.</blockquote>

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