Gods Power & Devils Power

[Professor]

Here's an opportunity to discuss Good & Evil.

We often hear about the Gods but not so much about the Devils

Apparently God is still quite mysterious even to those of faith likewise, the Devil, not much coverage is there?

Discuss as you wish however keep in mind that we can do with some proof & evidence of Gods power and or intervention in planetary affairs.

Likewise the Devil, if you cannot see or sense the individual, then at least you can be aware of the effects of its Devilish power upon the world.

And/or, pose the questions as you see fit.

 

[clarke-connolly]

Well ~ ~ Here be a Demon !


View: https://twitter.com/l_ronaldson/status/1477358770493833220

 

[scolairebocht]

Can I recommend this interview, which gives a great insight into the devil:

 

[Esatdigiwank]

Am l a Subject for this Discussion? After all l am the Antichrist.

 

[clarke-connolly]

Am l a Subject for this Discussion? After all l am the Antichrist.

What Powers do you have ? !

 

[scolairebocht]

I suspect Esat that you have to form an orderly queue when it comes to that honour on here!

 

[Esatdigiwank]

What Powers do you have ? !

I have no Powers whatsover. But the late Coals believed Me to be the definitive A.

 

[clarke-connolly]

I have no Powers whatsover. But the late Coals believed Me to be the definitive A.

Not much point in being the Anti-Christ if you don't have Powers ! ! !

 

[Esatdigiwank]

Not much point in being the Anti-Christ if you don't have Powers ! ! !

I am what l am. I have seen the returned Christ by the way. Back in 2015. From Leitrim. Goes under the name Keith McGovern. Had a long beard, shaggy hair & dressed in blue & white flowing robes. He is also a let down. His Spirit appwared in a photo l once took. Sadly l no longer have it.

 

[clarke-connolly]

Hard to get a Quality God or even a Quality Devil these Days ! !

 

[Professor]

So, quite simply the results of Gods Power are to be seen all around us.

I used to call myself an Atheist because I wasn't following or devoting to any religion, the notion of God didn't see very important (my stupor/ignorance at the wheel) and I didn't care enough to get involved with religion, it didn't seem necessary and in fact it could diminish my then existing Atheist freedoms.

Fundamentally, I had prayed as a youngster but did not get any reply from God (as my religious teacher said would happen) I tried and tried to get an answer to my simple prayers, really believing that I would hear a voice or see a little miracle unfold but after many attempts - Nothing at all happened, and those days created some sort of fundamental doubt.
Years later people talked about hearing god, I remember thinking, so what, it's no big deal, who cares, it's done nothing for me - no signs, just silence and my own efforts through life, no problem, forget it.

The thing is one day not so long ago, my position changed, I still had not heard a voice or seen a miracle (to my expectations) but . . . I could honestly no longer call myself an Atheist, and in fact, the position of Atheism became marginally absurd in my mind for various reasons - Changing perspectives is the key.

I might not hear or see God as explained in religion class or how the priests may put it across to my way of thinking but I seemed to suddenly appreciate and actually see The Power of God in the world, which led me to the conclusion that God certainly must exist.

So I'd say that a demonstration of Gods Power would be for example, the presence, the existence of Churches, Chapels, and Cathedrals. Even when a building has been burned down (Notre Dame) given time, it gets built back up again, it exists to serve God who serves the people or is it that it exists to serve people who serve God??
Eh? @AN2 & @Fishalt

 

[Fishalt]

So, quite simply the results of Gods Power are to be seen all around us.

I used to call myself an Atheist because I wasn't following or devoting to any religion, the notion of God didn't see very important (my stupor/ignorance at the wheel) and I didn't care enough to get involved with religion, it didn't seem necessary and in fact it could diminish my then existing Atheist freedoms.

Fundamentally, I had prayed as a youngster but did not get any reply from God (as my religious teacher said would happen) I tried and tried to get an answer to my simple prayers, really believing that I would hear a voice or see a little miracle unfold but after many attempts - Nothing at all happened, and those days created some sort of fundamental doubt.
Years later people talked about hearing god, I remember thinking, so what, it's no big deal, who cares, it's done nothing for me - no signs, just silence and my own efforts through life, no problem, forget it.

The thing is one day not so long ago, my position changed, I still had not heard a voice or seen a miracle (to my expectations) but . . . I could honestly no longer call myself an Atheist, and in fact, the position of Atheism became marginally absurd in my mind for various reasons - Changing perspectives is the key.

I might not hear or see God as explained in religion class or how the priests may put it across to my way of thinking but I seemed to suddenly appreciate and actually see The Power of God in the world, which led me to the conclusion that God certainly must exist.

So I'd say that a demonstration of Gods Power would be for example, the presence, the existence of Churches, Chapels, and Cathedrals. Even when a building has been burned down (Notre Dame) given time, it gets built back up again, it exists to serve God who serves the people or is it that it exists to serve people who serve God??
Eh? @AN2 & @Fishalt

Well, this is why I'll say I'm an atheist, but I'm technically agnostic. It's possible to be both. There's also quite a leap from believing in a God to saying one knows what a particular God wants them to do, what to eat, what to wear, etc et al. I'm not militantly atheistic, and really only come across that way when I have to defend personal freedom from tyrannical evangelicals like Tiger, who are about as bad for Christianity in terms of PR as it can get short of the Westboro Baptists. I'm surprised he's not a Pentecostal, but I imagine it's just a matter of time. I actually think, on balance, the church (especially the Catholic Church) does more good than bad in the world. It's likely many of my uncles and Aunts would have died if not for the nuns delivering them food parcels, for example. They do a lot for charity. I do not want to see Christianity dissolved, and would prefer a world with it than without it. My main issue with Christianity isn't Jesus, it's his fan club, and their utter failure to live up to the moral code espoused by his teachings. God builds a church, but the devil builds a chapel.

 

[Professor]

Worthy for sure of but cannot agree with the dig @Tiger.
But sure, we're wary and in dread of the Evangelicals as seen on TV and at their extreme - And there it exists, more demonstration (Dramatic on stage & TV) of Gods Power - And perhaps an immensely scary type of power?

 

[Fishalt]

Worthy for sure of but cannot agree with the dig @Tiger.
But sure, we're wary and in dread of the Evangelicals as seen on TV and at their extreme - And there it exists, more demonstration (Dramatic on stage & TV) of Gods Power - And perhaps an immensely scary type of power?

Not sure if you caught this or not, but this bloke just about convinces me demons exist, and one is wearing him as a skinsuit.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI

 

[AN2]

So, quite simply the results of Gods Power are to be seen all around us.

I used to call myself an Atheist because I wasn't following or devoting to any religion, the notion of God didn't see very important (my stupor/ignorance at the wheel) and I didn't care enough to get involved with religion, it didn't seem necessary and in fact it could diminish my then existing Atheist freedoms.

Fundamentally, I had prayed as a youngster but did not get any reply from God (as my religious teacher said would happen) I tried and tried to get an answer to my simple prayers, really believing that I would hear a voice or see a little miracle unfold but after many attempts - Nothing at all happened, and those days created some sort of fundamental doubt.
Years later people talked about hearing god, I remember thinking, so what, it's no big deal, who cares, it's done nothing for me - no signs, just silence and my own efforts through life, no problem, forget it.

The thing is one day not so long ago, my position changed, I still had not heard a voice or seen a miracle (to my expectations) but . . . I could honestly no longer call myself an Atheist, and in fact, the position of Atheism became marginally absurd in my mind for various reasons - Changing perspectives is the key.

I might not hear or see God as explained in religion class or how the priests may put it across to my way of thinking but I seemed to suddenly appreciate and actually see The Power of God in the world, which led me to the conclusion that God certainly must exist.

So I'd say that a demonstration of Gods Power would be for example, the presence, the existence of Churches, Chapels, and Cathedrals. Even when a building has been burned down (Notre Dame) given time, it gets built back up again, it exists to serve God who serves the people or is it that it exists to serve people who serve God??
Eh? @AN2 & @Fishalt

I recall being quite devastated at the Notre Dame fire, I can picture the first scenes that I saw of it clearly in my mind now

I know a lot of religious people don't like the term but I think that is evidence of my cultural Christianity

 

[AN2]

Well, this is why I'll say I'm an atheist, but I'm technically agnostic. It's possible to be both.

I think it's somewhat of a category error but they complement each other

What you are, what I am, what "World's most famous atheist" Richard Dawkins is, are (full title) agnostic atheists

 

[Professor]

Anyway, we, all of us perhaps could appreciate that God is also a subjective phenomenon in all it's many forms.

Some of God is tangible, other God is mysterious, elusive.

It's not necessarily, and fairly certainly not all one integral totality and yet it is - Is that a paradox that can be explained? - to the satisfaction of the believers?? - Yes & No depending which believers you ask?

Which sort of brings us to a mid point in belief where one mans God happens to be another mans Devil . . .

(I'll pause here for a while and try figure out what the above is supposed to allude to . . .)

 

[SwordOfStZip]

I know a lot of religious people don't like the term but I think that is evidence of my cultural Christianity

A question is how much is the focus on the "Problem of Evil" as an argument against God's existence a product of Cultural Christianity so to speak?

 

[AN2]

A question is how much is the focus on the "Problem of Evil" as an argument against God's existence a product of Cultural Christianity so to speak?

I don't really see the connection

Please expand

 

[SwordOfStZip]

I don't really see the connection

Please expand

Well to believe that evil is a problem for the existence of God you have to make some assumptions about what God must be.

 

[AN2]

Well to believe that evil is a problem for the existence of God you have to make some assumptions about what God must be.

But what does that have to do with cultural Christianity?

As for problem of evil, God is evil, problem solved

 

[AN2]

Well to believe that evil is a problem for the existence of God you have to make some assumptions about what God must be.

I think maybe this video you posted would be somewhat related?

Post in thread 'Do you believe in God, deities, souls, spirits & things like that?' https://www.sarsfieldsvirtualpub.co...uls-spirits-things-like-that.1084/post-123077

The problem is, I don't think that any of that is strictly what I would think of as "Cultural Christianity", but maybe it is..

 

[SwordOfStZip]

But what does that have to do with cultural Christianity?

As for problem of evil, God is evil, problem solved

It has to do with cultural Christianity in that people say raised Hindu do not often if ever use the "Problem of Evil" argument for atheism while as it is the default argument for atheism of people from Christian backgrounds. When people from Jewish or Muslim backrgounds resort to it usually they have had heavy Western influence. And you are right- and the "Problem of evil" is not really a problem because who says that God has to be good, or more to the point good as some humans understand that concept?

 

[AN2]

It has to do with cultural Christianity in that people say raised Hindu do not often if ever use the "Problem of Evil" argument for atheism while as it is the default argument for atheism of people from Christian backgrounds. When people from Jewish or Muslim backrgounds resort to it usually they have had heavy Western influence. And you are right- and the "Problem of evil" is not really a problem because who says that God has to be good, or more to the point good as some humans understand that concept?

The problem of evil I would think is mostly a theistic invention, I just give a simple solution

Cultural Christianity would be an appreciation of things Christian. That can be buildings, prose, art, perhaps kindness, a moral code.. an understanding that it's a part of who we (wypipo) are

There was some kerfuffle recently when Dawkins said that he was a cultural Christian (even though he's said it for decades) and he clarified afterwards, I can't quite remember where now, perhaps to @Tiger's favourite philosopher, Piers Morgan, or in his debate with Jordan Peterstein, that that doesn't mean that he believes a word of Christianity, the religion

 

[SwordOfStZip]

The problem of evil I would think is mostly a theistic invention, I just give a simple solution

Cultural Christianity would be an appreciation of things Christian. That can be buildings, prose, art, perhaps kindness, a moral code.. an understanding that it's a part of who we (wypipo) are

There was some kerfuffle recently when Dawkins said that he was a cultural Christian (even though he's said it for decades) and he clarified afterwards, I can't quite remember where now, perhaps to @Tiger's favourite philosopher, Piers Morgan, or in his debate with Jordan Peterstein, that that doesn't mean that he believes a word of Christianity, the religion

It is a false problem coming out of one understanding of Theism. Without Christian Revelation I believe you can know the existence of God but the idea of God being good as such does not make such sense looking at the world as it is and has been in recorded history, the idea of God being utterly evil though also would not make such sense I think either.

Well I guess there are two senses of "Culturally Christian"- one is a matter of Religious epigenetics and subconscious influences soaked up from the influences Christianity has had on certain cultures and one is an ideological matter of someone like Jordan Peterson and that Somali illegal immigrant they all love so much.

 

[AN2]

It is a false problem coming out of one understanding of Theism. Without Christian Revelation I believe you can know the existence of God but the idea of God being good as such does not make such sense looking at the world as it is and has been in recorded history, the idea of God being utterly evil though also would not make such sense I think either.

Well I guess there are two senses of "Culturally Christian"- one is a matter of Religious epigenetics and subconscious influences soaked up from the influences Christianity has had on certain cultures and one is an ideological matter of someone like Jordan Peterson and that Somali illegal immigrant they all love so much.

To be honest with you, I think white people built white civilisation and Christianity came along for the ride and dances to our tune.

That's why people like EMJ are nuts

 

[Tiger]

Here's an opportunity to discuss Good & Evil.

We often hear about the Gods but not so much about the Devils

Apparently God is still quite mysterious even to those of faith likewise, the Devil, not much coverage is there?

Discuss as you wish however keep in mind that we can do with some proof & evidence of Gods power and or intervention in planetary affairs.

Likewise the Devil, if you cannot see or sense the individual, then at least you can be aware of the effects of its Devilish power upon the world.

And/or, pose the questions as you see fit.

Professor, the book I’m currently reading seems apt for your thread here. I think you’d be interested in it. It’s called The Devils Best Trick by Randall Sullivan. It’s basically two books in one.

The book tells two very different but strangely connected stories. The first is about the horrifying events in Childress, Texas—a small, rural town with a sinister secret. In 1988, a boy named Tate was murdered in what seemed to be a Satanic ritual, and three years later, his sister was killed in a similarly gruesome way. The town, once known mainly for being the filming location of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, became infamous for its alleged Satanic coven that seemed to have its claws in every corner of the community. Sullivan digs deep into the chilling details, uncovering a story of evil that’s almost too terrifying to believe, showing how fear and darkness took over this quiet little town.

Alongside this true-crime story, Sullivan dives into the history of the Devil, exploring how the figure of Satan has been understood and interpreted throughout time. From ancient religious texts to modern culture, he traces the Devil’s evolution as a symbol of pure evil, temptation, and rebellion. This part of the book looks at how different societies have used the idea of Satan to explain and confront the darker sides of human nature.

 

[Tiger]

The film ‘The Exorcism of Emily Rose’ is based on a real exorcism in Germany of a girl called Anneliese Michel.


View: https://youtu.be/29fpnF1DWoQ?feature=shared



View: https://youtu.be/kvVYwSZyE4w?feature=shared


View: https://youtu.be/u5u4WYu-_eo?feature=shared

 

[Professor]

Thanks for the recommendation, it's helpful to get well researched material.

 

[Tiger]

Thanks for the recommendation, it's helpful to get well researched material.

For clarity, it’s worth saying that I don’t fully align with Sullivan’s views, however the book is very well researched and has a unique structure with every second chapter alternating between 2 separate narratives.