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Two new civil wars within the Catholic Church
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<blockquote data-quote="Tiger" data-source="post: 117204" data-attributes="member: 353"><p>Correct, I did not watch those videos, I’ll have a listen later and let you know what I think. </p><p></p><p>Ok, so you would disagree with the notion that actual Catholicism built Western civilization? </p><p></p><p>Look, it’s not a matter of opinion—this is historical fact, whether or not one finds it comfortable. Western civilization, as we know it, was not some spontaneous development born from the Enlightenment or whatever secular myth is being sold these days. It was the product of the Catholic Church’s teachings, institutions, and defense of Christendom. But fine, let’s break it down.</p><p></p><p>The university system? Founded by the Catholic Church. The first universities in Paris, Bologna, and Oxford were not secular playgrounds; they were established by Catholics with the express purpose of teaching theology, law, and the sciences—all in the context of the Faith. The preservation of classical knowledge during the so-called "Dark Ages"? It was Catholic monasteries, not pagan philosophers or Enlightenment heroes, that preserved and copied texts from Aristotle, Plato, and others. Without the Church, Europe would have sunk into intellectual oblivion.</p><p></p><p>Then there's the moral foundation of Western law. The concept of natural law—the very idea that there are objective moral truths that transcend time and culture—is a Catholic one, codified by St. Thomas Aquinas, who didn’t just dream this up after a walk in the garden. He was drawing on centuries of Catholic teaching, which shaped the legal frameworks of Europe and beyond.</p><p></p><p>You want more? The Renaissance, often touted as some secular awakening, was deeply intertwined with Catholic patronage and theology. Michelangelo, Raphael, and even that rebellious genius Da Vinci—whose works adorned the walls of churches and were funded by popes—weren't creating art for a secular society. They were creating art for Christendom.</p><p></p><p>Now, let’s not forget the Crusades and the Reconquista. Not the sanitised, revisionist history version where everyone wrings their hands about violence, but the real history. Without Catholicism, without the Popes rallying Europe, Europe would’ve been overrun. It was the Catholic Faith that lit the fire in men’s hearts to defend what was holy and sacred. Lepanto, Vienna—these weren’t ideological wars of the modern secular state; these were the final stand of a Catholic Europe against an Islamic Caliphate that would have gladly erased Christianity from the map.</p><p></p><p>But fine, let's put history aside for a moment, because some people want to pretend as if none of that matters anymore. Let’s look at culture, shall we? The very idea of human dignity that the modern world loves to appropriate is Catholic through and through. The Imago Dei, the teaching that man is made in the image of God, shaped the way people in the West thought about individual worth, rights, and justice. Modern secular humanism tries to claim credit for human rights, but those concepts were born in the minds of men formed by Catholic theology. Go read Jacques Maritain, one of the key philosophers behind the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Spoiler alert: he was Catholic.</p><p></p><p>So, what exactly is it that you're disagreeing with? Are we seriously going to pretend that the secular values we see now, those same values unraveling at a pace that would make the Tower of Babel blush, somehow “built” the West? No, those values are deconstructing it, brick by brick, by severing it from its Catholic roots. Western civilization, as a cohesive force, is the child of Catholicism, and without the Church, it would never have been born.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you want to listen to Pox and have him agree that Christianity today is squishy—well, we’re on the same page there. Vatican II opened the floodgates for this soft, apologetic form of faith that cowers before the world instead of standing as a pillar of truth. But don’t conflate modern squishiness with historical Catholicism. The latter forged a civilization that transformed the world; the former can barely stand up to the culture of the next Netflix special.</p><p></p><p>So, I’ll ask again: What exactly is it that you’re disagreeing with?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tiger, post: 117204, member: 353"] Correct, I did not watch those videos, I’ll have a listen later and let you know what I think. Ok, so you would disagree with the notion that actual Catholicism built Western civilization? Look, it’s not a matter of opinion—this is historical fact, whether or not one finds it comfortable. Western civilization, as we know it, was not some spontaneous development born from the Enlightenment or whatever secular myth is being sold these days. It was the product of the Catholic Church’s teachings, institutions, and defense of Christendom. But fine, let’s break it down. The university system? Founded by the Catholic Church. The first universities in Paris, Bologna, and Oxford were not secular playgrounds; they were established by Catholics with the express purpose of teaching theology, law, and the sciences—all in the context of the Faith. The preservation of classical knowledge during the so-called "Dark Ages"? It was Catholic monasteries, not pagan philosophers or Enlightenment heroes, that preserved and copied texts from Aristotle, Plato, and others. Without the Church, Europe would have sunk into intellectual oblivion. Then there's the moral foundation of Western law. The concept of natural law—the very idea that there are objective moral truths that transcend time and culture—is a Catholic one, codified by St. Thomas Aquinas, who didn’t just dream this up after a walk in the garden. He was drawing on centuries of Catholic teaching, which shaped the legal frameworks of Europe and beyond. You want more? The Renaissance, often touted as some secular awakening, was deeply intertwined with Catholic patronage and theology. Michelangelo, Raphael, and even that rebellious genius Da Vinci—whose works adorned the walls of churches and were funded by popes—weren't creating art for a secular society. They were creating art for Christendom. Now, let’s not forget the Crusades and the Reconquista. Not the sanitised, revisionist history version where everyone wrings their hands about violence, but the real history. Without Catholicism, without the Popes rallying Europe, Europe would’ve been overrun. It was the Catholic Faith that lit the fire in men’s hearts to defend what was holy and sacred. Lepanto, Vienna—these weren’t ideological wars of the modern secular state; these were the final stand of a Catholic Europe against an Islamic Caliphate that would have gladly erased Christianity from the map. But fine, let's put history aside for a moment, because some people want to pretend as if none of that matters anymore. Let’s look at culture, shall we? The very idea of human dignity that the modern world loves to appropriate is Catholic through and through. The Imago Dei, the teaching that man is made in the image of God, shaped the way people in the West thought about individual worth, rights, and justice. Modern secular humanism tries to claim credit for human rights, but those concepts were born in the minds of men formed by Catholic theology. Go read Jacques Maritain, one of the key philosophers behind the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Spoiler alert: he was Catholic. So, what exactly is it that you're disagreeing with? Are we seriously going to pretend that the secular values we see now, those same values unraveling at a pace that would make the Tower of Babel blush, somehow “built” the West? No, those values are deconstructing it, brick by brick, by severing it from its Catholic roots. Western civilization, as a cohesive force, is the child of Catholicism, and without the Church, it would never have been born. Now, if you want to listen to Pox and have him agree that Christianity today is squishy—well, we’re on the same page there. Vatican II opened the floodgates for this soft, apologetic form of faith that cowers before the world instead of standing as a pillar of truth. But don’t conflate modern squishiness with historical Catholicism. The latter forged a civilization that transformed the world; the former can barely stand up to the culture of the next Netflix special. So, I’ll ask again: What exactly is it that you’re disagreeing with? [/QUOTE]
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Two new civil wars within the Catholic Church
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