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Two new civil wars within the Catholic Church
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<blockquote data-quote="Tiger" data-source="post: 117215" data-attributes="member: 353"><p>What an appalling retort. </p><p></p><p>Ah, yes, the usual trope—“good Catholics, bad Catholics, nationalism, and labels”—as if every form of discernment is some crude classification of humanity like insects in a jar. Well, let’s dismantle this one piece at a time, shall we? I’m feeling generous.</p><p></p><p>First off, this isn’t about some simplistic division of “good” and “bad” Catholics as if I’m tossing out moral judgments like a reality TV host. It’s about fidelity to the truth. The Catholic Faith is not a buffet where one picks and chooses doctrines based on personal preference. There are those who follow the teachings as they have been handed down, and there are those who’ve decided they know better—often under the guise of modernity or “progress.” That doesn’t make them “bad” in some juvenile, moralizing sense; it makes them wrong. And in matters of faith and doctrine, that distinction matters—a lot.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, let’s address your accusation of “nationalism,” which seems to be the quick-draw insult for anything that smacks of loyalty to one’s own culture or values. You toss around the term as if it’s inherently bad, but here’s the thing: love for one’s country, people, and culture is not nationalism in the crass, caricatured sense you’re invoking. It’s a recognition that culture, faith, and heritage are worth preserving—especially when they’re under attack. This isn't some crude tribalism; it’s an understanding that the Faith has historically been tied to the life and identity of nations, most notably in places like Ireland, where Catholicism was not just a set of beliefs but a bulwark against oppression.</p><p>When you accuse Catholics who care about their faith and culture of “nationalism,” you’re really just taking a lazy swipe at anyone who believes in defending what’s theirs. What’s next, are we to apologize for the saints who rallied nations in defense of the Faith? Were St. Joan of Arc or King Louis IX guilty of “nationalism” too?</p><p></p><p>Now, let’s get to the real heart of your frustration: this notion of “sinking your individuality” into a unit, in this case “fundamentalist Catholics,” as you so eloquently put it. You see, this is the language of modern individualism—the false idol of our times. The idea that the highest good is to be “yourself,” detached from any larger identity, is precisely what has hollowed out the modern soul. But the Catholic Faith has always taught that true individuality only flourishes in communion with something greater—namely, the Body of Christ, which is the Church. We’re not dissolving our individuality; we’re elevating it by rooting it in eternal truths, rather than letting it drift aimlessly in a sea of subjective feelings and transient cultural trends.</p><p></p><p>And speaking of trends, let’s talk about what really “sinks” individuality. It’s not tradition or fidelity to a faith that’s stood the test of time. No, what erodes individuality is the mindless conformity to the modern world’s fads—where people are herded into ideological echo chambers, spouting the same slogans about “tolerance” and “inclusion,” all while losing any real sense of who they are or where they came from. In today’s world, the real act of rebellion, the real assertion of individuality, is standing with Tradition—not the world.</p><p></p><p>Finally, let’s touch on your accusation that this is “the same shit always,” implying that this conversation is nothing but a tiresome reiteration of some historical “us versus them.” Well, yes—it is a reiteration, because some things are worth defending, even when the world tires of hearing about them. Christ Himself said, “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). That’s not the language of a man concerned with being “nice” or making everyone feel comfortable. The Church has always been at odds with the world, and that tension isn’t going away just because it makes modern sensibilities uncomfortable.</p><p></p><p>So, here’s what’s “same shit always”: the world will always try to tear down the truths it finds inconvenient. And Catholics who actually believe in their faith will always have to stand against it. If that feels repetitive, it’s because the truth is unchanging, while the lies just keep reinventing themselves.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tiger, post: 117215, member: 353"] What an appalling retort. Ah, yes, the usual trope—“good Catholics, bad Catholics, nationalism, and labels”—as if every form of discernment is some crude classification of humanity like insects in a jar. Well, let’s dismantle this one piece at a time, shall we? I’m feeling generous. First off, this isn’t about some simplistic division of “good” and “bad” Catholics as if I’m tossing out moral judgments like a reality TV host. It’s about fidelity to the truth. The Catholic Faith is not a buffet where one picks and chooses doctrines based on personal preference. There are those who follow the teachings as they have been handed down, and there are those who’ve decided they know better—often under the guise of modernity or “progress.” That doesn’t make them “bad” in some juvenile, moralizing sense; it makes them wrong. And in matters of faith and doctrine, that distinction matters—a lot. Secondly, let’s address your accusation of “nationalism,” which seems to be the quick-draw insult for anything that smacks of loyalty to one’s own culture or values. You toss around the term as if it’s inherently bad, but here’s the thing: love for one’s country, people, and culture is not nationalism in the crass, caricatured sense you’re invoking. It’s a recognition that culture, faith, and heritage are worth preserving—especially when they’re under attack. This isn't some crude tribalism; it’s an understanding that the Faith has historically been tied to the life and identity of nations, most notably in places like Ireland, where Catholicism was not just a set of beliefs but a bulwark against oppression. When you accuse Catholics who care about their faith and culture of “nationalism,” you’re really just taking a lazy swipe at anyone who believes in defending what’s theirs. What’s next, are we to apologize for the saints who rallied nations in defense of the Faith? Were St. Joan of Arc or King Louis IX guilty of “nationalism” too? Now, let’s get to the real heart of your frustration: this notion of “sinking your individuality” into a unit, in this case “fundamentalist Catholics,” as you so eloquently put it. You see, this is the language of modern individualism—the false idol of our times. The idea that the highest good is to be “yourself,” detached from any larger identity, is precisely what has hollowed out the modern soul. But the Catholic Faith has always taught that true individuality only flourishes in communion with something greater—namely, the Body of Christ, which is the Church. We’re not dissolving our individuality; we’re elevating it by rooting it in eternal truths, rather than letting it drift aimlessly in a sea of subjective feelings and transient cultural trends. And speaking of trends, let’s talk about what really “sinks” individuality. It’s not tradition or fidelity to a faith that’s stood the test of time. No, what erodes individuality is the mindless conformity to the modern world’s fads—where people are herded into ideological echo chambers, spouting the same slogans about “tolerance” and “inclusion,” all while losing any real sense of who they are or where they came from. In today’s world, the real act of rebellion, the real assertion of individuality, is standing with Tradition—not the world. Finally, let’s touch on your accusation that this is “the same shit always,” implying that this conversation is nothing but a tiresome reiteration of some historical “us versus them.” Well, yes—it is a reiteration, because some things are worth defending, even when the world tires of hearing about them. Christ Himself said, “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). That’s not the language of a man concerned with being “nice” or making everyone feel comfortable. The Church has always been at odds with the world, and that tension isn’t going away just because it makes modern sensibilities uncomfortable. So, here’s what’s “same shit always”: the world will always try to tear down the truths it finds inconvenient. And Catholics who actually believe in their faith will always have to stand against it. If that feels repetitive, it’s because the truth is unchanging, while the lies just keep reinventing themselves. [/QUOTE]
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Two new civil wars within the Catholic Church
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