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Message: <blockquote data-quote="A Man Called Charolais" data-source="post: 82922">These would be relatively inexpensive aircraft that would be guided onto the target by air control, it would require skill alright but they could probably swing it.  The debris question was undoubtedly an issue when propeller driver aircraft were the standard fare and I'm not sure that it's not a red herring given the numerous dogfights in those days.  The significant problem with the jet aircraft is that they're moving so fast that they zip through the debris field - a Harrier or Sky Warden wouldn't have that problem as they could loiter at lower speeds.Running a few attack helicopters near large urban areas would be cheaper than expending patriot missiles on drones;  propeller driven aircraft could be used further out to reduce numbers of incoming.  It's about running an effective air defense on a tight budget.  I realise that there's a lot of graft involved so there's pressure to run it  like <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal" target="_blank">the RHI scheme</a> but needs must given constraints. An alternative is to shrug their shoulders and let them through.It would also keep some Ukrainian pilots alive and doing something useful.  There's a habit in Eastern Europe of needing the fill the numbers of killed and injured for the monthly report that might be diverted into a more constructive management of field assets.I take your point about the Sparrow (Fox 1) but the aircraft has to keep its radar on and directed at the target so it plays an indispensable role.  It essentially guides the missile onto the target like a laser designator for smart munitions.  This makes it a less desirable armament on the contemporary battlefield for engagements other than those relating to the shooting down of crippled or soft targets.  The Americans also have a lot of these in storage and I'm pretty certain that, if they're within 10 miles, they have a firm lock on them.  One USMC pilot managed to get seven intercepts so it must be feasible.In any case, there still is a Ukrainian air force and, given the pressure they're under to make irrational decisions to maximise the skim for the "bosses" (in the same manner that operates in the Russian forces) they've done very well.  The more I elaborate on this subject, the more likely I am to propose something that would be evidently ridiculous to them.  I'll leave it to them to figure out.  The only benefit I could make is to coax the politicals to take a more creative approach and it's unlikely that this conversation is going to be picked up by the international press so it's more of an exercise in curiosity than anything else.As for the "<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tj_R8e0SiQ" target="_blank">firing rockets from power stations in Kiev</a>" line - is that something like <a href="https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what-is-agitprop-definition/" target="_blank">the bridge you have for sale</a>?</blockquote>

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