Zellensky Tries to Surrender, what comes next for Ukraine.

Declan

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So Happy Christmas. Zellensky is now back peddling furiously but alas for him, it is far to late for that. Russia has no intention whatsoever of letting him off the hook. He is responsible for everything after the proposal in Istanbul in March 2022.


This discussion is to be on what ye see as to the situation of the new rump state of Ukraine will be. What army will be allowed. How many oblasts Putin takes etc. Basically, what is the end result.

Anyone that still thinks Ukraine can win can stay in the other threads, as they will be off topic here.


Most are delighted with this victory so this is a Christmas celebration of sorts as the killing will stop. Enjoy.
 

View: https://youtu.be/Td8M5ylApig?si=NLItmF59VFoTVrEb



I even mention the money given to Ukraine. It is gone, simple. The latest being 90 billion. Obviously, Russia is not going to be paying reparations. I do not know the extent of money given. It is about 450 billion. And now another 90.

So the EU is stuck for 155 billion, never to be repaid. Britain is stuck with 25 billion.

Will the EU collapse. I believe so
 
Yes, the EU has been an overextended, overregulated, authoritarian shambles for a long time.
The incompetent harpy VDL has exacerbated the demise of the EU.
Germany funded the project.
Nowadays that financial largesse is gone.
Intresting times ahead.
As for the main point of the thread.
The war will be concluded on Russian term's.
And European sanctions are the most counterproductive farce ever devised.
But sheer stupid lack of awareness of consequences and the deluded double down theatrics have destroyed European industrial capabilities.
A little clue EU.
Trebling the price of energy isn't a good idea to improve output.
 
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View: https://youtu.be/Td8M5ylApig?si=NLItmF59VFoTVrEb



I even mention the money given to Ukraine. It is gone, simple. The latest being 90 billion. Obviously, Russia is not going to be paying reparations. I do not know the extent of money given. It is about 450 billion. And now another 90.

So the EU is stuck for 155 billion, never to be repaid. Britain is stuck with 25 billion.

Will the EU collapse. I believe so

I put in a Euro myself ( wink )

I'll never be seeing that Euro again !
 
The next move , probably this weekend, will be Russia telling them to stick their latest peace appeal up their hole.

Having taken Pokrotsh and Sverse etc, they will gobble up some of Sumy and the other 3 oblasts. I reckon they will gobble for 8 of them
 
The big positive here is that there is now serious talk of ending it, of actually seeking peace rather than the endless sinking of billions into a wasted venture. This is advantegeuous to all parties except UVL's ego and ambition to be crowned most holy Queen of Europe.

If peace is found then the EU hierarchy will have some serious questions to answer although I don't think it will immedietly disintegrate, that would mean home politicians having to make decisions and think for themselves, something they will do their utmost to avoid.
 
Recently declassified paper.
Third papers intresting wrt the war.

Memorandum of Conversation. Subject: Meeting with President of Russia | National Security Archive https://share.google/VkDvbqWhKCKsmMc2q

Putin: Okay. Now I’d like to repeat what I said to Condi and Gates in Moscow on NATO enlargement. It won’t be new to you, and I don’t expect a response; I just want to say it out loud. I’d like to emphasize accession to NATO of a country like Ukraine will create for the long-term a field of conflict for you and us, long-term confrontation.

Bush: Why?

Putin: Seventeen million Russians live in Ukraine—a third of the population. Ukraine is a very complex state. This is not a nation built in a natural manner. It’s an artificial country created back in Soviet times. Following World War II Ukraine obtained territory from Poland, Romania and Hungary—that’s pretty much all of western Ukraine. In the 1920s and 1930s Ukraine obtained territory from Russia—that’s the eastern part of the country. In 1956, the Crimean peninsula was transferred to Ukraine. It’s a rather large European country built with a population of 45 million. It’s populated by people with very different mindsets. If you go to western Ukraine you’ll see villages where the only spoken language is Hungarian and people wear those bonnets. In the east, people are wearing suits, ties and big hats. NATO is perceived by a large part of the Ukrainian as a hostile organization.

This creates the following problems for Russia. This creates the threat of military bases and new military systems being deployed in the proximity of Russia. It created uncertainties and threats for us. And relying on the anti-NATO forces in Ukraine, Russia would be working on stripping NATO of the possibility of enlarging. Russia would be creating problems there all the time. What for? What is the meaning of Ukrainian membership in NATO? What benefit is there for NATO and the U.S.? There can be only one reason for it and that would be to cement Ukraine’s status as in the Western world and that would be the logic. I don’t think it’s the right logic; I’m trying to comprehend. And given the divergent views of areas of the population on NATO membership, the country could just split apart. I always said there’s a certain pro-Western part, and a certain pro-Russian part. Now the power there is held by the pro-Western leaders. As soon as they came to power they split within themselves. The political activity there fully reflects the attitudes of the population. The issue there is not accession to NATO, but to ensure the self-sufficiency of Ukraine. Also, their economy should be strengthened.

Seventy percent of the population is against NATO. Condi told me in Slovakia and Croatia the population was opposed at first and they’re now in favor. What we are against is Ukraine’s accession to NATO, but in any case we should wait until a majority of the population is in favor, then let them accede, not vice versa.
 
There is much in there that explains the present situation, have the idiots of the EU elite and NATO read it, are they even aware of the arguments he presents, would they comprehend them if they did?

I read that and I think of UvL, or that Dutch(?) moron in charge of NATO and wonder whether they are actually capable of thinking beyond the next expenses claim let alone lay out a clear philosophy on what actually their respective organisations are trying to achieve.
 

So Happy Christmas. Zellensky is now back peddling furiously but alas for him, it is far to late for that. Russia has no intention whatsoever of letting him off the hook. He is responsible for everything after the proposal in Istanbul in March 2022.


This discussion is to be on what ye see as to the situation of the new rump state of Ukraine will be. What army will be allowed. How many oblasts Putin takes etc. Basically, what is the end result.

Anyone that still thinks Ukraine can win can stay in the other threads, as they will be off topic here.


Most are delighted with this victory so this is a Christmas celebration of sorts as the killing will stop. Enjoy.

One of the major problems Ukraine will face is the lack of collective intelligence within the EU, the heads of which have been pursuing a mindless policy of agression with no clear goal in sight, just throwing money at a bonfire and thinking it somehow virtuous.

How does the new Ukraine deal with an EU that has a completely misplaced mindset, one that is unlikely to change with the present political incumbents in power? It is one of the greatest arguments for the dismemberment of the EU.
 
zitler is being summoned to Mar a Lago to surrender.

The thing is, it is all for show because the Russians have no interest in letting them off the hook.

The morale of the Ukes getting slaughtered by this worm must be at an all time low.

I expect next week that they will just abandon ship and the Russians will push west .

There is a small change that the Russians might wrap up by their Christmas on January 7th
 
zitler is being summoned to Mar a Lago to surrender.

The thing is, it is all for show because the Russians have no interest in letting them off the hook.

The morale of the Ukes getting slaughtered by this worm must be at an all time low.

I expect next week that they will just abandon ship and the Russians will push west .

There is a small change that the Russians might wrap up by their Christmas on January 7th
Col. Douglas McGregor thinks Russia will push on and take Odessa, more or less land locking what's left of Ukraine, before reaching a settlement. Dreadful outcome for Ukraine, Nato, and the ridiculous "coalition of the willing". Will Ireland get back the 130 million it recently donated or has that been pissed up against a wall?
 
Col. Douglas McGregor thinks Russia will push on and take Odessa, more or less land locking what's left of Ukraine, before reaching a settlement. Dreadful outcome for Ukraine, Nato, and the ridiculous "coalition of the willing". Will Ireland get back the 130 million it recently donated or has that been pissed up against a wall?
That 130 will have helped drive up the price of villas on the Med and kept the local Merc dealers busy.
 
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zitler is being summoned to Mar a Lago to surrender.

The thing is, it is all for show because the Russians have no interest in letting them off the hook.

The morale of the Ukes getting slaughtered by this worm must be at an all time low.

I expect next week that they will just abandon ship and the Russians will push west .

There is a small change that the Russians might wrap up by their Christmas on January 7th
If he gets his marching orders will he head off back to Ukraine to break the bad news or will make himself scarce until the next big thing distracts the world from Ukraines plight?

And that's the next question, what will the globalists conjure up to relace it in our hearts and minds?
 
Are the next three days not the most important in a very long time.

1. Ukraine accepts defeat.

2. Gaza is sorted (?)

3. Venezuela is sorted ( because the Ford is past its normal 6 month tour and must be outfitted soon)

4. The futures markets may fail.


I will give it til Wednesday, 3 trading days
 
Are the next three days not the most important in a very long time.

1. Ukraine accepts defeat.

2. Gaza is sorted (?)

3. Venezuela is sorted ( because the Ford is past its normal 6 month tour and must be outfitted soon)

4. The futures markets may fail.


I will give it til Wednesday, 3 trading days
So will it be UFOs that are the next big thing, or maybe Tank gets a life?
 
If this is all true Haven must be gutted.
Not really. Russia would have to engage in a withdrawal of its forces equivalent to ground ceded by Ukrainian troops, effectively establishing a demilitarized zone. Thats a clever move that places Putin under pressure.

Russia would also have to agree to an affirmation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and a non-aggression agreement between Russia and Ukraine (though we know that means nothing to Russia) and Security guarantees provided to Ukraine by the United States, NATO, and European states, and the withdrawal of Russian troops from the Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, Sumy, and Kharkiv regions of Ukraine.

Ukraine would also get a development package to support its postwar economic recovery, including establishment of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence as well as investment in Ukraine’s natural gas sector by US companies.

Putin would have to abandon all his war goals if he agrees to do this. If he does, Russia is clearly in worse trouble than we know.
 
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Are the next three days not the most important in a very long time.

1. Ukraine accepts defeat.

2. Gaza is sorted (?)

3. Venezuela is sorted ( because the Ford is past its normal 6 month tour and must be outfitted soon)

4. The futures markets may fail.


I will give it til Wednesday, 3 trading days
Is there any realistic chance of getting Paul Gascoigne sorted out though ? !
 
Not really. Russia would have to engage in a withdrawal of its forces equivalent to ground ceded by Ukrainian troops, effectively establishing a demilitarized zone. Thats a clever move that places Putin under pressure.Russia would also have to agree to an affirmation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and a non-aggression agreement between Russia and Ukraine (though we know that means nothing to Russia) and Security guarantees provided to Ukraine by the United States, NATO, and European states, and the withdrawal of Russian troops from the Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv, Sumy, and Kharkiv regions of Ukraine.Ukraine would also get a development package to support its postwar economic recovery, including establishment of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence as well as investment in Ukraine’s natural gas sector by US companies.Putin would have to abandon all his war goals if he agrees to do this. If he does, Russia is clearly in worse trouble than we know.
No no Sir. I said if what the posters above were saying was true, ie that Russia has no notion of signing up to such a deal and are in a position to do what they want.
 
Russia won't accept the 'deal' and the EU will continue funding its puppet.
Until the last Ukrainian.
What a waste.

No turning point for Ukraine: The frontline reality Western media won’t show​

From stalled urban battles to collapsing strongholds, developments in December highlight Russia’s growing operational advantage
No turning point for Ukraine: The frontline reality Western media won’t show



By late December, the gap between political statements and battlefield realities has grown harder to ignore. Despite localized fighting and temporary slowdowns, the Russian Army continues to press forward along key sectors of the front, gradually eroding Ukrainian defenses and dictating the pace of operations.
During a press conference on December 19, Russian President Vladimir Putin succinctly outlined the situation at the front: since March, when Kursk Region was cleared of enemy forces, the full strategic initiative on the battlefield has been in the hands of the Russian Army. This means that Russian forces are advancing along the entire front line.

A counter-question was immediately posed: what about Kupyansk? The Ukrainian military claims to have recaptured the city, and Vladimir Zelensky has reportedly even visited it. So, let’s start our overview there.

Kupyansk​

The Russian Army faces challenges in Kupyansk because the ‘West’ group of forces has failed to encircle the city from three sides before engaging in battles. Kupyansk is divided from north to south by the Oskol River; to encircle the city, the Russian Army needs to establish reliable and well-protected crossings north and south of the city, and also advance from the east.
Russian forces were able to establish, fortify, and expand a foothold north of Kupyansk, in the Kondrashovka area; however, they didn’t establish a foothold south of the city, along the Senkovo-Krugliakovka line (1 on map). However, this summer, the Ukrainian defenses in Kupyansk weakened significantly, prompting the Russian command to decide to enter the city from the north.

Until mid-October, battles for Kupyansk progressed fairly well. To reach the city, it was said that troops would have to navigate through a heating pipeline at the bottom of the river (2) and then continue on foot or crawl their way forward. Logistics were complicated and relied on personal delivery or drones. But the risk was worth taking.
By mid-October, the central part of Kupyansk, located on the right bank of the river, was fully under Russian control. Due to logistical challenges, it was not possible to deploy large troop formations in Kupyansk; estimates suggest that no more than 150-200 Russian soldiers were present there at a time.
However, the left-bank portion of the city, where a major railway hub is located, remains under Ukrainian control (3); up to 3,500 soldiers are operationally encircled there.
Ukrainian forces recognized the weak points of the Russian positions on the right bank and launched a local counteroffensive. In late October, Ukrainian forces reinforced their troops and attempted to cut off Russian supply lines between Kupyansk and Kondrashovka (4). As a result, the area north of the city has become a gray zone. Supplies are mainly delivered by drones, despite the fact that the supply routes haven’t been physically cut off.
However, the pace of combat in the city has noticeably slowed, forcing the command of the ‘West’ group of forces to revert to a more conservative approach, shifting the focus to the left bank. The goal is to liberate the area, capture the Kupyansk-Uzlovoy railway station, and establish a physical link with the right bank within the city itself.
Could this local failure of the Russian Army have a noticeable impact on the future course of the conflict? Not really. Kupyansk will only gain strategic importance if the front shifts back by 25-30km, beyond the reach of FPV drones. Only then can the railway be utilized for supplying the army, which would ease logistics in this remote corner of the front.

Liman​

In addition to Kupyansk, the ‘West’ group of forces is advancing towards Liman, the second major city north of the Seversky Donets River. Russian forces abandoned Liman during Ukraine’s counteroffensive in 2022. Liman needs to be recaptured by Russian troops not just because it is located in Russia’s Donetsk People’s Republic, but also in order to secure the northern flank for potential future battles over Slavyansk.
In the past month, the eastern flank of the city has been fully isolated, and a 7km stretch of the road between Liman and Seversk has been severed. The partial encirclement on the western flank has expanded, and intense fighting continues within the city itself.

All of this signifies that the Ukrainian garrison in Liman has entered a phase of exhaustion. If it weren’t for orders to hold the city at all costs, Ukrainian forces would likely have retreated long ago, as supplying the city across the river is quite challenging.

Seversk​

On December 11, Seversk was officially liberated. The city was captured in less than a month, which is remarkably quick by the standards of the current conflict. Once the Russian army took control of both main routes leading into the city at the end of November, its fate was sealed.
The Ukrainian garrison here could have held out longer, as for example, in Pokrovsk (Krasnoarmeysk). However, unlike in other ‘strongholds’, the Ukrainian forces chose not to launch suicidal counterattacks here and wisely left the area in a timely manner.

The capture of Seversk paves the way to Ukrainian forces’ major stronghold: the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk urban agglomeration. If Russian forces manage to cross the river west of Seversk (1 on map) and establish a foothold on higher ground, Ukraine would have to abandon another defensive line and retreat towards Slavyansk.
Such a maneuver is quite possible. For example, it was the crossing of the Seversky Donets River near the railway bridge in the area of Dronovka that allowed the Russians to cut off one of the routes to Seversk, leading to success in battles for the city.

Pokrovsk – Mirnograd​

The Pokrovsk-Mirnograd urban agglomeration was the second most populous area remaining under Ukrainian control in Donbass. Moreover, open steppes stretch for nearly 100km west of Pokrovsk, so beyond the city there are no major settlements where Ukrainian forces can establish durable defense.
Fighting in this area has continued since spring; we’ve covered it in detail before.
READ MORE: The battle the world is watching, but few understand: What’s really going on in Pokrovsk?
In the past month, two key events have occurred. Firstly, the Ukrainian counteroffensive has failed. The Ukrainian attempt to break through the encirclement of Mirnograd from the north via Rodninskoye hasn’t produced any result, and Rodninskoye has partially come back under Russian control.
Secondly, by the end of November, the Russian Army completely liberated Pokrovsk. A tight physical encirclement was formed (for the first time since battles for Mariupol), leaving the garrison in Mirnograd trapped. Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers surrendered, a few dozen managed to escape through the fields; the fate of the rest is clear.

According to reports, as of December 25, 90-95% of the urban area of Mirnograd had been cleared. Due to our conservative reporting standards, the map shows a smaller area of control – it is based on video evidence, which usually lags behind compared to the situation on the ground.
The fates of Pokrovsk and Mirnograd have been sealed. It’s likely that official announcements of their liberation will come before the end of the year.

Gulaipole​

In the past several months, the greatest advance of the Russian Army has been noted between Gulaipole in Zaporozhye Region and Pokrovskoye in Dnepropetrovsk Region. This front is crucial for two reasons: first, it runs along one of Ukraine’s major defensive lines, rendering it largely ineffective.
Second, Russian forces are advancing across open steppes and favorable terrain toward Zaporozhye, and as we can see, the Ukrainian military is currently unable to stop them, as it struggles to establish a stable front there.
Over the past month, Russian forces have taken full control over the eastern bank of the Gaichur river without fighting; troops advanced up to 15km along a 30km front.

Russian troops also established a foothold across the river on the northern flank of the offensive, and captured Peschanoye and Gerasimovka without major resistance.
Ukrainian forces managed to establish a certain defense only in the city of Gulaipole. The Russian Army couldn’t capture it right away; only the part of the city on the eastern bank of the Gaichur river was liberated without battles.
However, Russian troops managed to cross the river and battles are now underway in the central districts of the city. Ukrainian reinforcements sent in to defend the city found themselves operationally encircled, as a 30km stretch of the only road leading into the city is under intense fire control

Full article with maps etc here for anyone who can access RT.

 

Trump pours cold water on Zelensky’s ‘peace plan’​



The Ukrainian leader “doesn’t have anything until I approve it,” the US president has stated


Trump pours cold water on Zelensky’s ‘peace plan’

US President Donald Trump and Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky meet in the Oval Office at the White House on February 28, 2025, in Washington, DC. © Getty Images


US President Donald Trump has expressed skepticism about Ukrainian leader Vladimir Zelensky’s latest peace proposal to end the conflict with Moscow, arguing the discussions could move forward only with his blessing.
Trump’s remarks come as he is expected to hold talks with Zelensky in Florida on Sunday. Earlier this week, Zelensky presented a 20-point peace framework, which included a freeze of the frontline in Russia’s Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye, and Kherson regions, Moscow’s withdrawal from several Ukrainian regions, and an 800,000-strong Ukrainian army backed by NATO members. The plan also envisages “Article 5-like” security guarantees from the US, NATO, and European states to Kiev.
In an interview with Politico on Friday, Trump signaled he was in no rush to rally behind Zelensky’s demands. “He doesn’t have anything until I approve it,” Trump stressed. “So we’ll see what he’s got.”

Commenting on Zelensky’s initiative, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov remarked that “the plan – if it can even be called as such – is radically different… from the 27-point [proposal] we were working on with the US side… over the past weeks”.
The initial US-drafted 28-point version leaked to the media in November reportedly required Kiev to relinquish parts of Russia’s Donbass still under Ukrainian control, pledge not to join NATO, and cut the size of its armed forces to 600,000, with a frontline freeze in Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions. Moscow has said that the US proposal could work as a basis for future negotiations. At the same time, Ukraine’s backers in the EU signaled that they would be opposed to any major concessions from Kiev.
Russia maintains that a sustainable settlement is only possible if Ukraine recognizes new territorial realities and commits to neutrality, demilitarisation, and denazification.


 
No no Sir. I said if what the posters above were saying was true, ie that Russia has no notion of signing up to such a deal and are in a position to do what they want.
Good.
The longer it goes on, the more the war hurts Russia, which is good for everyone else.
 
Economic growth predictions for 2026. Not much happening in the EU or Germany, USA and Russia doing better but world wide economic growth is not where it should be.
The West's proxy war on Russia is hurting everyone.




 
Including the families of the poor bastards sent to fight the war eh!

God you are some callous little c*nt.
The "families" pushed them inro it.




View: https://youtu.be/sYXl95cdOOQ?si=Qmf0LBOn4ylXqbth

You support this, but I don't.


I'd look in the mirror if I were you.
 
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The "families" pushed them inro it.




View: https://youtu.be/sYXl95cdOOQ?si=Qmf0LBOn4ylXqbth

You support this, but I don't.


I'd look in the mirror if I were you.

You talk the most awful bollix, it's become a profession for you.
 

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