Origins Thread

[clarke-connolly]

The universe is twice as old as anyone thought

The universe might be almost twice as old as we believed, being 26.7 billion years old instead of 13.7 billion.

The new theory suggests that the universe might also be made of completely different material from what most scientists previously believed.

The universe is twice as old as anyone thought, study suggests

The universe might be almost twice as old as we believed, being 26.7 billion years old instead of 13.7 billion years old.

uk.yahoo.com

Does that make me twice as old ? !

 

[Fishalt]

The "story" of Jesus is written down in four contemporary or near contemporary accounts and is corroborated, not in every respect admittedly, by about two seperate Jewish and two Roman historians. These accounts are similar to any modern day eye witness accounts and are not remotely similar to Nordic myths.

This is disingenuous when you dig into it. There is little information about the existence of Jesus in Roman records, but it more or less just states he was executed during the reign of Tiberius. It appears that the described followers of Christus were regarded as a kind of minor nuisance and cult originally.

Tactius wrote:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

Now, I will say that the Romans knew time was long, and were notorious for editing history for purposes of future historical perspective. Their Depictions of the celts in both words and art are more or less pure propaganda. The celts were reasonably developed as a civilization. Certainly they were not the mindless savages Roman art would have people believe they were.

 

[Tiger]

This is disingenuous when you dig into it. There is little information about the existence of Jesus in Roman records, but it more or less just states he was executed during the reign of Tiberius. It appears that the described followers of Christus were regarded as a kind of minor nuisance and cult originally.

Tactius wrote:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

Now, I will say that the Romans knew time was long, and were notorious for editing history for purposes of future historical perspective. Their Depictions of the celts in both words and art are more or less pure propaganda. The celts were reasonably developed as a civilization. Certainly they were not the mindless savages Roman art would have people believe they were.

While it’s true that Romans employed propaganda to shape their historical narratives, it’s a stretch to suggest that Tacitus’s account of Jesus falls into this category.

Tacitus was a respected historian known for his accuracy and impartiality, and his mention of Jesus and the early Christians in the context of Nero’s persecution aligns with other historical accounts and archaeological evidence. Additionally, Tacitus’s primary aim was not to create propaganda but to record historical events as accurately as possible. Tacitus’s account aligns with the biblical account, an account of which he would never had read.

It’s also worth noting that the Jews who despised Christ don’t even deny Him in their Talmud.

Here’s another Tacitus quote:

"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also."

Do we discount all of Tacitus’s work or just the bits that mention Jesus?

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Do we discount all of Tacitus’s work or just the bits that mention Jesus?

Did Tacitus say he rose from the dead after being killed?

 

[Tiger]

Did Tacitus say he rose from the dead after being killed?

He did not, not that it would make any difference to you if he did. Tacitus was a neutral commentator who didn’t discuss Christian beliefs or teachings, but focused on the spread of Christianity in Rome and the persecution faced by its adherents under Nero’s reign.

Early Christians believed the testimony of eye witnesses that discovered the tomb of Jesus was empty, despite it being sealed with a large stone and guarded by Roman soldiers.

The opponents of Jesus, such as the Jewish religious leaders and the Roman authorities were not able to produce the body of Jesus to silence the growing group of Christians. Their silence on this matter is noteworthy given the controversy surrounding His death and alleged resurrection.

 

[Hermit]

The opponents of Jesus, such as the Jewish religious leaders and the Roman authorities were not able to produce the body of Jesus to silence the growing group of Christians. Their silence on this matter is noteworthy given the controversy surrounding His death and alleged resurrection.

Interesting...can you recommend a good video on that sort of history/evidence of Jesus?

 

[Tiger]

This is an interesting perspective from a famous detective. He uses his detective prowess to investigate the historical record of Jesus.

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

That's nearly an hour long Sir.

What was his conclusion?

 

[Tiger]

That's nearly an hour long Sir.

What was his conclusion?

He went from being an atheist who wouldn’t even use the AD calendar (he used the term ‘common era’ or CE) to being a Christian.

 

[Tiger]

Worth a watch

 

[Tiger]

Scientists just discovered a new way cells control their genes — it's called 'backtracking' - Sahana Sitaraman

https://www.livescience.com/health/...s-control-their-genes-its-called-backtracking

Scientists have discovered that, when a DNA-reading enzyme moves backwards along a gene, it may do so to help control when the gene is turned on. (Clearly, this stuff did not all arise by natural selection acting on random mutation.)

 

[Tiger]

Fascinating discussion here with MIT scientist Professor - Rosalind Picard who converted to Christianity through logic discussing her reasoning with Lex Fridman.

 

[scolairebocht]

Is that Lamarkian then, Tiger?

 

[PlunkettsGhost]

Fascinating discussion here with MIT scientist Professor - Rosalind Picard who converted to Christianity through logic discussing her reasoning with Lex Fridman.

excellent, will watch this later today. Many such cases of course. intelligent people, true skeptics (not vapid fan boys), will always come to the correct conclusion

 

[Tiger]

Is that Lamarkian then, Tiger?

No, this discovery does not support Lamarkian theory.

 

[Tiger]

A question:

What are the odds of a marine endoparasitic tapeworm to be trapped in tree resin, be fossilised and discovered almost 100 million years later by a scientist?

What about a marine baby ammonite in the same type of amber?

Could the taphonomic hypothesis of floating vegetation mats increase the odds?

Ancient Marine Tapeworm Found Encased in 99-Million-Year-Old Amber | Sci.News

Paleontologists have found a partial body fossil of an ancient tapeworm preserved in mid-Cretaceous Kachin amber from Myanmar.

www.sci.news

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Worth a watch

16 minutes Sir.

What's the gist of his argument?

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

A question: What are the odds of a marine endoparasitic tapeworm to be trapped in tree resin, be fossilised and discovered almost 100 million years later by a scientist?

What about a marine baby ammonite in the same type of amber? Could the taphonomic hypothesis of floating vegetation mats increase the odds?

None of that makes any sense to the average reader Tiger.

 

[Mad as Fish]

Fascinating discussion here with MIT scientist Professor - Rosalind Picard who converted to Christianity through logic discussing her reasoning with Lex Fridman.

She makes much of the idea that scientists don't, as a rule, appreciate that there is knowledge beyond that which can be measured. A sweeping generalism and quite unfair to many I am sure. She appears to have taken her own realisation of this rather mundane fact and inflated it to a pitch to impress her audience rather than quietly absorb it as another milestone in life's journey.

 

[Mad as Fish]

A question:

What are the odds of a marine endoparasitic tapeworm to be trapped in tree resin, be fossilised and discovered almost 100 million years later by a scientist?

What about a marine baby ammonite in the same type of amber?

Could the taphonomic hypothesis of floating vegetation mats increase the odds?

Ancient Marine Tapeworm Found Encased in 99-Million-Year-Old Amber | Sci.News

Paleontologists have found a partial body fossil of an ancient tapeworm preserved in mid-Cretaceous Kachin amber from Myanmar.

www.sci.news

It should be born in mind that all sorts of weird preservations will have occurred over the billions of years that life has been around and we will only experience a miniscule fraction of them. The ones that do pop up therefore appear remarkable, but there will be plenty more that have been destroyed by natural prrcesses or will remain hidden from our view.