Origins Thread

Do you believe in evolution?


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Tiger

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What has Saul said against your Christian beliefs Sir?
I think it’s up to Saul to lay out his physical devotion to fat Jambo. Nothing to do with me.

Personally I’d like to stay away from their physical and emotional interaction. It doesn’t benefit this site.
 

clarke-connolly

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I think it’s up to Saul to lay out his physical devotion to fat Jambo. Nothing to do with me.

Personally I’d like to stay away from their physical and emotional interaction. It doesn’t benefit this site.
Who is " Saul " again ~ I struggle to keep up with the, Code Names / Previous Names ? !
 

Tiger

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This video is over an hour long, but well worth the time to watch. Trent discusses the remarkable constants of the universe and asks the question - are they ‘fine tuned?

 
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Tiger

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Well then you're gonna have to summarise for us.

Who's gonna listen to an hour of shyte???
Myles, just to say it… you often wear your cognitive decline as a badge of honour. For your own sake, I’d suggest you try to end this bad habit.

There are only two people who regularly whinge about the length of posts and video clip durations. That’s you and Jambo. Is it a coincidence that you both suffer from alcohol addiction? Probably not. The early stages of brain atrophy is similar to ADHD symptoms. Later on it can lead to full on dementia.

I would advise that you get hold of a product called ‘Lions Mane’ which is very popular these days with millennials who have issues focusing and digesting information.
 

Tiger

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In the interesting video they discuss:

Population genetics
Generation of new forms of life
The molecular revolution
The Sequence Hypothesis
Virulent bacteria
Theodicy

I would have liked to hear them speak more to probability and randomness in evolutionary processes, such as mutations occurring at random in the genetic code, but what is discussed is worth listening to.

 

Tiger

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In the overall discussion of ‘Origins’, a fascinating character worth looking at is Sir Fred Hoyle.

4b4f5542-b3fe-4294-a6eb-6acce809075c.jpeg


He was an English astronomer and mathematician who first coined the phrase the ‘Big Bang’. This is a fact that pub quiz aficionados will often know. What they don’t often know is that he would eventually go against his original Big Bang theory because it was mathematically impossible.

In a famous lecture at Cardiff University he said “Life cannot have originated on Earth” much to the shock of the listening students. He waited for their gasp to die down and he said “I’ve done the calculations, and mathematically it is simply impossible”.

He followed up with the quote “rabbits produce rabbits and very little else”. He accepted minor variations (also known as adaptation) which is non controversial, however once you go beyond that into new animals etc. he and the mathematically conscious biologists are saying is that Darwinian evolution is dead. It’s impossible.

For anyone interested, here’s a free pdf of a book he published on the subject called ‘Mathematics of Evolution’

http://www.evolocus.com/Textbooks/Hoyle1999.pdf

In this fascinating book, Hoyle delves into topics such as combinatorial inflation, the complexity of genetic algorithms, and the emergence of novel traits, employing mathematical analysis to critique aspects of evolutionary theory.
 
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scolairebocht

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Yes Hoyle is very much worth quoting on this subject, and he was a very highly respected scientist.

Anyway I was just wondering what is the story that atheists have about possessions and Exorcists and all that? Its very hard to dismiss all the latter as liars, which is presumably the atheist position? In any case here is an example of a talk by one in case anybody is interested:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQOSzZprIO4
.
 

Tiger

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Yes Hoyle is very much worth quoting on this subject, and he was a very highly respected scientist.

Anyway I was just wondering what is the story that atheists have about possessions and Exorcists and all that? Its very hard to dismiss all the latter as liars, which is presumably the atheist position? In any case here is an example of a talk by one in case anybody is interested:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQOSzZprIO4
.

You’re correct to bring this up Scolairebocht. I’m fascinated by accounts of possession, and the supra natural occurrences that happen. Particularly levitation, superhuman strength and people speaking in ancient languages.

Another area of interest is incorruptible saints. Their non embalmed bodies have lasted in tact for centuries with no viable medical explanation.
 

Tiger

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In terms of origins, famous British physiologist, Denis Noble is highly regarded for his work in the field has spent the latter period of his life attacking Neo Darwinism for being unscientific. Asserting that its most important foundations are either wrong or overemphasised. He claims:

1: mutations are not random
2: Acquired characteristics can be inherited
3: The gene-centred view of evolution is wrong
4. Evolution is not a gradual gene-by-gene process but is macromutational.
5. Scientists have not been able to create new species in the lab or greenhouse, and we haven’t seen speciation occur in nature.

IMG_1590.jpeg
 
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Mad as Fish

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In the overall discussion of ‘Origins’, a fascinating character worth looking at is Sir Fred Hoyle.

View attachment 4345

He was an English astronomer and mathematician who first coined the phrase the ‘Big Bang’. This is a fact that pub quiz aficionados will often know. What they don’t often know is that he would eventually go against his original Big Bang theory because it was mathematically impossible.

In a famous lecture at Cardiff University he said “Life cannot have originated on Earth” much to the shock of the listening students. He waited for their gasp to die down and he said “I’ve done the calculations, and mathematically it is simply impossible”.

He followed up with the quote “rabbits produce rabbits and very little else”. He accepted minor variations (also known as adaptation) which is non controversial, however once you go beyond that into new animals etc. he and the mathematically conscious biologists are saying is that Darwinian evolution is dead. It’s impossible.

For anyone interested, here’s a free pdf of a book he published on the subject called ‘Mathematics of Evolution’

http://www.evolocus.com/Textbooks/Hoyle1999.pdf

In this fascinating book, Hoyle delves into topics such as combinatorial inflation, the complexity of genetic algorithms, and the emergence of novel traits, employing mathematical analysis to critique aspects of evolutionary theory.
Which kinda goes with what I say about evolution, and that is we are only scratching at the surface of our understanding of it.
 

scolairebocht

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"Another area of interest is incorruptible saints. Their non embalmed bodies have lasted in tact for centuries with no viable medical explanation."

Yes absolutely, another fascinating area, but if you go into it in a big way you find some of the corpses were waxed, to preserve them in older times, and sometimes references to the modern bodies are not clear which were and which weren't so embalmed.
 

Professor

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I think it more than coincidence that we humans share so many of the same traits as other mammals.
The Cat and I though very different are also very similar - a bit like you & your dog, Val and horse etc.

Looking at the other creatures features and it's plain to see we're all made of the same stuff - Two eyes, ears, teeth, arms, legs, dicks, balls, nipples etc etc. Our common ancestors clearly go back before the apes waaaaayy back . . . . .
 

jpc

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Do you think death should be feared?
It's our last act!
Makes no odds how modest or grand our lives were.
Or how peaceful or otherwise our demise is.
This final story is the same for us all
No point in overthinking it.
It happens when it happens.
 
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Tiger

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We're the 'same stuff' as other earthlings

View attachment 4349
The conversation around homogeneous structures has long since passed Professor. The fossil record doesn’t show a gradual step by step ascent of creatures developing. Of course a designed Universe would have homogeneous structures too.

The ‘Cambrian explosion’ shows the emergence of all the complex creatures we are familiar with today in one episode without the gradual steps in advance.

With the advance of microbiology, the discussion has moved to what is happening at the cellular level.

Darwin said if his own theory:

“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.”

Darwin didn’t have access to powerful microscopes to study cells and he based his theory on the phenotype being more complex than the genotype. However we now know that the opposite is true.

The discovery of the double helical structure of DNA, the genetic code, the complicated, irregular structure of proteins, and much else have given us a greater understanding and appreciation for the elaborate structures that are necessary to sustain life.
 
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Mad as Fish

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The conversation around homogeneous structures has long since passed Professor. The fossil record doesn’t show a gradual step by step ascent of creatures developing. Of course a designed Universe would have homogeneous structures too.

The ‘Cambrian explosion’ shows the emergence of all the complex creatures we are familiar with today in one episode without the gradual steps in advance.

With the advance of microbiology, the discussion has moved to what is happening at the cellular level.

Darwin said if his own theory:

“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.”

Darwin didn’t have access to powerful microscopes to study cells and he based his theory on the phenotype being more complex than the genotype. However we now now that the opposite is true.

The discovery of the double helical structure of DNA, the genetic code, the complicated, irregular structure of proteins, and much else have given us a greater understanding and appreciation for the elaborate structures that are necessary to sustain life.
I think the discoveries you mention have also led us into the the dark alley of complacency in thinking we know all there is to know, and it's now just a question of filling in the details.

Darwin himself was very uncertain of his theory and took many years to publish it, and even then he was pushed into doing so by others.
 

Tiger

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I think the discoveries you mention have also led us into the the dark alley of complacency in thinking we know all there is to know, and it's now just a question of filling in the details.

Darwin himself was very uncertain of his theory and took many years to publish it, and even then he was pushed into doing so by others.
Absolutely. The debate around evolution and the origins of the universe is similar to the debate around man made climate change. There has been a hijacking of the debate at academic institutions who don’t want their work to be exposed. They are the only two areas of science where we hear the (shady) phrase of ‘settled science’ or ‘consensus’ to obfuscate from having to respond to awkward questions.

Dr. James Tour, a professor of biology from Rice University (who makes molecules for a living as a synthetic organic chemist ) has put a challenge in 5 specific areas to 10 well known evolutionary scientists.

They are:

1. Origin of Life. Give a plausible step by step model for life emerging from non life. The current theories on spontaneous generation of life fail to provide sufficient evidence or mechanisms to convincingly explain the complexity of biochemical systems

2. Chemical evolution. Explain the spontaneous formation of complex molecules such as proteins and nucleus acids under prebiotic conditions.

3. Molecular machines. Explain (through natural processes) how organisms such as ribosome and ATP synthase developed gradually without aid of a designer.

4. Homochirality. In terms of the origin of homochirality, and the predominance of a single chirality in biological molecules such as amino acids and sugars, explain how the asymmetry emerged in prebiotic environments without any external intervention.

5. Informational Complexity. Given the importance of information in living systems, (particularly DNA and RNA sequences), explain how genetic code and the information processing system within cells evolved using purely naturalistic reasoning.

In this fascinating interview, they discuss the ‘building blocks of the building blocks’.

 
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Tiger

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For those people who prefer shorter videos, this section where he debunks the ‘primordial soup’ narrative based on the complexity of bio molecules is a must watch:

 

Tiger

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This video lays out the mathematical problems facing those trying to solve the puzzle of the spontaneous formation of life
 

Tiger

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Here is a fascinating debate between Dr. Taylor and an obnoxious Farina. Farina spends the entire debate using ad hominem tactics.

Dr. Tour talks about the factual reality of chemistry and Farina talks about Dr. Tour.

Farina has no proper answers to anything so he tries to attack his opponent instead. That and lots of unsubstantiated ‘whataboutery’.

This mimics our own site troll James who spends entire threads using ad hominems and never debates the facts.

This is probably why James thinks 10 to the power of a 1000 is a small number or a “50/50”chance as the hucksters he puts his faith in are of the same mind.

 
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Tiger

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Here’s a very interesting interview with theoretical physicist Alexander Vilenkin.

In this interview, he is asked about the constants of the universe and ‘fine tuning’. He agrees that our universe is finely tuned and pours doubt on ‘string theory’ offering an avenue of a solution in terms of an explanation.

 

Myles O'Reilly

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Here is a fascinating debate between Dr. Taylor and an obnoxious Farina. Farina spends the entire debate using ad hominem tactics.
Jared Taylor is an honest individual who just thinks its better if people stick to their own ethnic group.

Naturally he attracts a lot of ire for this.
 

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