An Open Letter to Atheists

[Tiger]

You conveniently ignored the other two (of three) bullet points, I see. Twas always thus

PS. Please don't talk about what atheists "believe" because you don't know what it (atheism) is

Your replies are descending into parody at this stage Jimbob

On the first point; Neuroscience is VERY clear; awareness of any kind requires measurable cortical activity. A flat EEG means no cortical activity. Invoking some ‘unknown process’ isn’t science. The evidence clearly contradicts materialism.

On the second point; LITERALLY every study ends with ‘more research is needed’. However, that doesn’t magically erase what AWARE and van Lommel’s Lancet study already showed: patients had veridical perceptions during periods of no brain activity.

Tiger 3 - 0 Jambo

 

[AN2]

Your replies are descending into parody at this stage Jimbob

On the first point; Neuroscience is VERY clear; awareness of any kind requires measurable cortical activity. A flat EEG means no cortical activity. Invoking some ‘unknown process’ isn’t science. The evidence clearly contradicts materialism.

On the second point; LITERALLY every study ends with ‘more research is needed’. However, that doesn’t magically erase what AWARE and van Lommel’s Lancet study already showed: patients had veridical perceptions during periods of no brain activity.

Tiger 3 - 0 Jambo

"The brain is essential for awareness", surely that is a 'materialist' POV

Also too, surely the religious view of a 'soul' is one of eternality, which of course the study can in no way, shape or form conclude

PS. I'm on Discouragement (your buddy saw to that) so I won't be engaging in this conversation much further

 

[AN2]

And for the final laugh..

Also, why do dead Hindus and atheists always report encounters with Christ

 

[Tiger]

"The brain is essential for awareness", surely that is a 'materialist' POV

You’re a bit slow Jimmy. You seem to be completely missing the point as usual. Neuroscience has established limits, so when patients demonstrate awareness without cortical activity, those limits have been breached.

Also too, surely the religious view of a 'soul' is one of eternality, which of course the study can in no way, shape or form conclude

The studies don’t need to prove that eternity is a metaphysical reality. They show that consciousness can exist apart from the body, which is the first step in exactly what religion has always taught about the soul. People who have died and returned, say that there is an eternity beyond this life.

PS. I'm on Discouragement (your buddy saw to that) so I won't be engaging in this conversation much further

You haven’t exactly engaged in this conversation up to this point whatsoever.

 

[AN2]

You’re a bit slow Jimmy. You seem to be completely missing the point as usual. Neuroscience has established limits, so when patients demonstrate awareness without cortical activity, those limits have been breached.

The studies don’t need to prove that eternity is a metaphysical reality. They show that consciousness can exist apart from the body,

AI > Tiger

My best advice for you would be to stop getting your stuff after it's been filtered by beliebers (in other words, stop watching those silly YouTube videos you watch all day)

which is the first step in exactly what religion has always taught about the soul. People who have died and returned, say that there is an eternity beyond this life.

You haven’t exactly engaged in this conversation up to this point whatsoever.

 

[Tiger]

AI > Tiger

View attachment 8089
My best advice for you would be to stop getting your stuff after it's been filtered by beliebers (in other words, stop watching those silly YouTube videos you watch all day)

Haha, you dipshit. Your AI is wrong. It’s telling you what you want to hear It’s obviously speaking to the part of the study that dealt with people having Cardiac arrests. My advice to you is to go read a book and actually learn about a subject before trying to debate it. You’re now at the mercy of whatever information your AI tells you and have no idea if it’s accurate.

The AWARE study documented cases where patients reported veridical perceptions; correct details of events and conversations during periods when the brain showed no measurable activity. Some patients were dead for hours. Calling that ‘unusual brain activity’ is a laughable dodge.

If the EEG is flat and the cortex is offline, then by definition the materialist explanation is fully exhausted.

The whole reason these cases are so controversial is precisely because they don’t fit the ‘strange brain activity’ narrative.

Tell us James, what type of ‘unusual brain activity’ can deceased people have exactly?

 

[AN2]

Haha, you dipshit. Your AI is wrong. It’s telling you what you want to hear

lol How so?

I'm just copy pasting your own words (obviously with the addition of the word - AWARE)

It’s obviously speaking to the part of the study that dealt with people having Cardiac arrests. My advice to you is to go read a book and actually learn about a subject before trying to debate it. You’re now at the mercy of whatever information your AI tells you and have no idea if it’s accurate.

The AWARE study documented cases where patients reported veridical perceptions; correct details of events and conversations during periods when the brain showed no measurable activity. Some patients were dead for hours. Calling that ‘unusual brain activity’ is a laughable dodge.

If the EEG is flat and the cortex is offline, then by definition the materialist explanation is fully exhausted.

The whole reason these cases are so controversial is precisely because they don’t fit the ‘strange brain activity’ narrative.

Tell us James, what type of ‘unusual brain activity’ can deceased people have exactly?

 

[Tiger]

lol How so?

I'm just copy pasting your own words (obviously with the addition of the word - AWARE)

View attachment 8090

You really are the dumbest contributor to this forum. I’ll give you a clue where you are going wrong…the last 3 words of your AI answer.

I’ll ask the question again - what type of ‘unusual brain activity’ can deceased people have exactly?

 

[AN2]

You really are the dumbest contributor to this forum. I’ll give you a clue where you are going wrong…the last 3 words of your AI answer.

I’ll ask the question again - what type of ‘unusual brain activity’ can deceased people have exactly?

 

[Tiger]

View attachment 8091

Haha, I’ve already told you that the studies acknowledge consciousness when brain activity is not detectable, that’s the bloody point. It shouldn’t do and there is no answers ‘in the traditional sense’.

Neuroscience is crystal clear: all conscious states that we know of; waking, dreaming, hallucinating, even anaesthesia emergence; correlate with measurable cortical activity. If there is no activity on EEG and no cortical function, then by definition the machinery of awareness is offline. To claim that there is some hidden, undetectable ‘consciousness process’ is not a scientific explanation but a metaphysical assumption made to protect materialism. Ironically that’s exactly the move you accuse religious people of making.

The deceased people buried in Glasnevin cemetery are not having naturally occurring ’undetectable brain activities’

It’s not just about flat EEGs. There are documented NDE cases where people blind from birth accurately describe visual details of the resuscitation scene; details they could not have accessed in life, let alone in clinical death. Others have given impossibly specific veridical accounts of surgical instruments, clothing worn by staff, or conversations occurring at a distance from their body and in other rooms and parts of the hospital building. These are phenomena that materialism has no framework to explain; yet they’re reported over and over in NDE research.

 

[AN2]

Haha, I’ve already told you that the studies acknowledge consciousness when brain activity is not detectable, that’s the bloody point. It shouldn’t do and there is no answers ‘in the traditional sense’.

Neuroscience is crystal clear: all conscious states that we know of; waking, dreaming, hallucinating, even anaesthesia emergence; correlate with measurable cortical activity. If there is no activity on EEG and no cortical function, then by definition the machinery of awareness is offline. To claim that there is some hidden, undetectable ‘consciousness process’ is not a scientific explanation but a metaphysical assumption made to protect materialism. Ironically that’s exactly the move you accuse religious people of making.

The deceased people buried in Glasnevin cemetery are not having naturally occurring ’undetectable brain activities’

It’s not just about flat EEGs. There are documented NDE cases where people blind from birth accurately describe visual details of the resuscitation scene; details they could not have accessed in life, let alone in clinical death. Others have given impossibly specific veridical accounts of surgical instruments, clothing worn by staff, or conversations occurring at a distance from their body and in other rooms and parts of the hospital building. These are phenomena that materialism has no framework to explain; yet they’re reported over and over in NDE research.

The studies don't show that "consciousness exists apart from the body". I'm sorry to break it to you but you need to accept that fact

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

AI > Tiger

Tiger I have to admit, a lot of your posts reek of AI copy & paste.

 

[Tiger]

Tiger I have to admit, a lot of your posts reek of AI copy & paste.

Oh yeah? I have to admit that this accusation pops up every time your world views are getting a hiding. Of course, that could be a coincidence.

 

[Tiger]

The studies don't show that "consciousness exists apart from the body". I'm sorry to break it to you but you need to accept that fact

Where do I start with a low IQ moronic comment like that?

Are you aware what the appalling inept definition of ‘consciousness’ that modern science has of consciousness?

James can you define consciousness for us?

 

[AN2]

Where do I start with a low IQ moronic comment like that?

Are you aware what the appalling inept definition of ‘consciousness’ that modern science has of consciousness?

James can you define consciousness for us?

lol You never cease to amaze me, Tiger

You are the one who claimed that the (scientific) studies showed that - consciousness can exist apart from the body. And now you're saying that science doesn't even know what that (consciousness) is. Unfrickenbelievable

 

[Tiger]

lol You never cease to amaze me, Tiger

You are the one who claimed that the (scientific) studies showed that - consciousness can exist apart from the body. And now you're saying that science doesn't even know what that (consciousness) is. Unfrickenbelievable

What is consciousness James? Define it. Don’t deflect or ask another question.

 

[AN2]

What is consciousness James? Define it. Don’t deflect or ask another question.

You're so fricken stupid that you understand that..

This statement is factually correct - The studies didn't show that consciousness can exist apart from the body

And this statement (yours) is factually wrong - The studies showed that consciousness can exist apart from the body

You are a science illiterate, you are a God of the gaps moron

 

[AN2]

You're so fricken stupid that you don't understand that..

.

 

[Tiger]

You're so fricken stupid that you understand that..

This statement is factually correct - The studies didn't show that consciousness can exist apart from the body

And this statement (yours) is factually wrong - The studies showed that consciousness can exist apart from the body

You are a science illiterate, you are a God of the gaps moron

James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson living up to his name.

Would you like to tell the reading audience why you won’t define ‘consciousness’ or shall I do all the explaining as usual?

There’s no point in making absolute statements about consciousness if you can’t define it. Also, stop making statements about a subject that you have done zero research on. There’s isn’t ‘a’ study (singular) you mong.

 

[AN2]

There’s no point in making absolute statements about consciousness if you can’t define it.

Wise words. You should heed them

 

[Tiger]

Wise words. You should heed them

James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson strikes again.

What is consciousness? Define it.

 

[AN2]

I'm not dodging any questions

You have made the following statements:

The studies showed that consciousness can exist apart from the body

and

I (me) believe that consciousness is only brain activity

These are factually incorrect statements, so you need to start again

The Weasels (@jpc and @Declan) still have my account on Discourage which makes it incredibly laborious to try to post.. which I won't be doing for very much longer. You, who can post freely, can have the final word on this debate

 

[Tiger]

I'm not dodging any questions

You have made the following statements:

The studies showed that consciousness can exist apart from the body

and

I (me) believe that consciousness is only brain activity

These are factually incorrect statements, so you need to start again

The Weasels (@jpc and @Declan) still have my account on Discourage which makes it incredibly laborious to try to post.. which I won't be doing for very much longer. You, who can post freely, can have the final word on this debate

James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson strikes again and again. It’s a simple question which you point blank refuse to answer.

What is consciousness? Define it.

 

[AN2]

That's not much of a final word.. but there have it

Your whole thing is this - "your world views are getting a hiding"

And of course by "your" you mean the "Materialists"

You dont know what consciousness is and neither do I, nor does science

You spend your life fighting a phantom. Atheists are just people who don't believe in God, which isn't the same as believing that there isn't one

 

[Tiger]

That's not much of a final word.. but there have it

Your whole thing is this - "your world views are getting a hiding"

And of course by "your" you mean the "Materialists"

You dont know what consciousness is and neither do I, nor does science

You spend your life fighting a phantom. Atheists are just people who don't believe in God, which isn't the same as believing that there isn't one

James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson strikes again and again and again. It’s a simple question which you point blank refuse to answer. There’s a very good reason for your cowardice which I’m going to explain.

What is consciousness? Define it.

Tiger 4 - 0 James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson

 

[AN2]

This how ludicrous you are

I have pointed out your falsehoods, furthermore I have said - "You dont know what consciousness is and neither do I, nor does science"

Yet you're still here, stamping your little Catholic feet

 

[Tiger]

This how ludicrous you are

I have pointed out your falsehoods, furthermore I have said - "You dont know what consciousness is and neither do I, nor does science"

Yet you're still here, stamping your little Catholic feet

It was obvious that you had no definition of consciousness, so it was important to make that clear to the readers. Now with that forced admission complete, I’ll proceed to hammer the final nail into the coffin.

You’re a spoofer.

 

[AN2]

What's important is that when you said this -

"The studies show that consciousness can exist apart from the body"

That you were lying. You're just a low IQ religious liar

 

[AN2]

 

[AN2]

In fairness, this atheist nerd (who's a fan of his) trainwrecks Charlie on God's existence -


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s17ytn2jFCE

You need to get over the fact that there is no proof for your God. None. What. So. Ever.

 

[Tiger]

View attachment 8100

James, it’s abundantly clear that you have a library of pre-programmed responses; and when the evidence unsettles you, you lazily reach for whichever of them is handiest; in this case the tired and well worn - ‘God of the Gaps.’ which you always reach for when the discussion gets beyond your level of comprehension. It's obvious to anyone who is actually following the debate properly that this response makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever. In point of fact - it's actually more of a 'Materialism of the Gaps' where you are left to invoke promissory scientism to explain away why clinically dead people have experiences when their brain has no cortical activity and is offline.

I am not invoking divinity to patch ignorance; I am describing a vast, reproducible dataset. Across cultures and contexts, clinically dead patients consistently report structured experiences ; out-of-body perception, panoramic life review, encounters with a radiant presence. These reports include veridical details, sometimes so precise that doctors have remarked they could serve as instructional material for medical students. Do you know what a veridical report means James? Do I have to explain it to you? (Of course I do).

What better source could there be on death than those who have actually died? That’s how we seek truth in every other field; we ask the witnesses. But when ten percent of humanity (as the European Academy of Neurology reported in 2019) testifies to the same reality, the materialist suddenly plugs his ears and mutters something about neurons. This isn’t God of the Gaps. This is Materialism of the Gaps: clinging to the blind hope that ‘someday’ science will explain away what is already staring them in the face.

 

[Tiger]

In fairness, this atheist nerd (who's a fan of his) trainwrecks Charlie on God's existence -


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s17ytn2jFCE

You need to get over the fact that there is no proof for your God. None. What. So. Ever.

Wow, it’s breathtaking that anyone watching this video could think that the fat lisping nerd comes out on top. He’s like a living embodiment of the SouthPark online geek meme.

“imagine there’s universe before our universe”

Imagine indeed.

 

[AN2]

 

[Tiger]

View attachment 8106

Well done James. Profound as usual

 

[AN2]

James, it’s abundantly clear that you have a library of pre-programmed responses; and when the evidence unsettles you, you lazily reach for whichever of them is handiest; in this case the tired and well worn - ‘God of the Gaps.’ which you always reach for when the discussion gets beyond your level of comprehension.

It's obvious to anyone who is actually following the debate properly that this response makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever. In point of fact - it's actually more of a 'Materialism of the Gaps'

Facepalm or lol emoji

where you are left to invoke promissory scientism to explain away why clinically dead people have experiences when their brain has no cortical activity and is offline.

I am not invoking divinity to patch ignorance; I am describing a vast, reproducible dataset. Across cultures and contexts, clinically dead patients consistently report structured experiences ; out-of-body perception, panoramic life review, encounters with a radiant presence. These reports include veridical details, sometimes so precise that doctors have remarked they could serve as instructional material for medical students. Do you know what a veridical report means James? Do I have to explain it to you? (Of course I do).

What better source could there be on death than those who have actually died?

lol Obviously not

That’s how we seek truth in every other field; we ask the witnesses. But when ten percent of humanity (as the European Academy of Neurology reported in 2019) testifies to the same reality, the materialist suddenly plugs his ears and mutters something about neurons. This isn’t God of the Gaps. This is Materialism of the Gaps: clinging to the blind hope that ‘someday’ science will explain away what is already staring them in the face.

 

[Tiger]

As James bravely admitted the other day, modern science does not have a single universally accepted definition of consciousness or have a provable explanation for how it arises from the brain.

With that in mind, this is a very interesting interview with Dr. Michael Egnor, a neurosurgeon and author of The Immortal Mind.

In this interview he dismantles the materialist dogma that the brain alone accounts for thought and consciousness. He calls their creed “promissory materialism”; a blind faith that someday, somehow, science will prove the mind is nothing but neurons. Yet no experiment has ever conjured an abstract thought from a neuron.


Egnor turns instead to the wisdom of Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas, showing that only by acknowledging the soul can one make sense of reason, logic, and the unity of faith with science.

From his own operating room, he brings witness: patients missing half or even two-thirds of their brains who nevertheless live normal, intelligent lives; conscious men and women with no cerebral hemispheres at all. These are living refutations of materialist superstition. The neurosurgeon’s textbooks said such things could not be, but the patients said otherwise.





View: https://youtu.be/fZC84WArfxw?feature=shared

 

[AN2]

Well done James. Profound as usual

Just relevant (you're as good a listener as Kirk)

 

[AN2]

As James bravely admitted the other day, modern science does not have a single universally accepted definition of consciousness or have a provable explanation for how it arises from the brain.

Science considers the brain essential for consciousness, another thing that's been mentioned that you didn't listen to

With that in mind, this is a very interesting interview with Dr. Michael Egnor, a neurosurgeon and author of The Immortal Mind.

In this interview he dismantles the materialist dogma that the brain alone accounts for thought and consciousness. He calls their creed “promissory materialism”; a blind faith that someday, somehow, science will prove the mind is nothing but neurons. Yet no experiment has ever conjured an abstract thought from a neuron.


Egnor turns instead to the wisdom of Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas, showing that only by acknowledging the soul can one make sense of reason, logic, and the unity of faith with science.

From his own operating room, he brings witness: patients missing half or even two-thirds of their brains who nevertheless live normal, intelligent lives; conscious men and women with no cerebral hemispheres at all. These are living refutations of materialist superstition. The neurosurgeon’s textbooks said such things could not be, but the patients said otherwise.





View: https://youtu.be/fZC84WArfxw?feature=shared

 

[AN2]

James, it’s abundantly clear that you have a library of pre-programmed responses; and when the evidence unsettles you, you lazily reach for whichever of them is handiest; in this case the tired and well worn - ‘God of the Gaps.’ which you always reach for when the discussion gets beyond your level of comprehension. It's obvious to anyone who is actually following the debate properly that this response makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever. In point of fact - it's actually more of a 'Materialism of the Gaps' where you are left to invoke promissory scientism to explain away why clinically dead people have experiences when their brain has no cortical activity and is offline.

I am not invoking divinity to patch ignorance; I am describing a vast, reproducible dataset. Across cultures and contexts,

I'm not doing X, I'm doing Y..

clinically dead patients consistently report structured experiences ; out-of-body perception, panoramic life review, encounters with a radiant presence. These reports include veridical details, sometimes so precise that doctors have remarked they could serve as instructional material for medical students. Do you know what a veridical report means James? Do I have to explain it to you? (Of course I do).

What better source could there be on death than those who have actually died?

That’s how we seek truth in every other field; we ask the witnesses.

Tiger would have us believe in alien abduction

But when ten percent of humanity (as the European Academy of Neurology reported in 2019) testifies to the same reality, the materialist suddenly plugs his ears and mutters something about neurons.

This isn’t God of the Gaps. This is Materialism of the Gaps:

It's not X, it's Y

And I mean, how stupid is "Materialism of the Gaps", where did you hear that from, a Daily Dose Of Special Needs YouTube video?

Science doesn't fill gaps in knowledge and understanding (with the supernatural), that's the point. Dreary me

clinging to the blind hope that ‘someday’ science will explain away what is already staring them in the face.

 

[AN2]

As James bravely admitted the other day, modern science does not have a single universally accepted definition of consciousness or have a provable explanation for how it arises from the brain.

With that in mind,

this is a very interesting interview with Dr. Michael Egnor, a neurosurgeon and author of The Immortal Mind.

No, it's really not. It's Daily Dose Of Special Needs and another religiotard babble incoherently about "materialism" for almost two hours

In this interview he dismantles the materialist dogma that the brain alone accounts for thought and consciousness. He calls their creed “promissory materialism”; a blind faith that someday, somehow, science will prove the mind is nothing but neurons. Yet no experiment has ever conjured an abstract thought from a neuron.


Egnor turns instead to the wisdom of Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas, showing that only by acknowledging the soul can one make sense of reason, logic, and the unity of faith with science.

From his own operating room, he brings witness: patients missing half or even two-thirds of their brains who nevertheless live normal, intelligent lives; conscious men and women with no cerebral hemispheres at all. These are living refutations of materialist superstition. The neurosurgeon’s textbooks said such things could not be, but the patients said otherwise.





View: https://youtu.be/fZC84WArfxw?feature=shared