An Open Letter to Atheists

Tiger

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lol

I said that it seems obvious how YOU account for them

Jaze, can you not read


I'm honestly not sure what the relevance of that is, is it to say that NDEs are "real"? 🤔


Materialist is a religious buzzword


"It's not X, it's Y" 🙄

What am I "evading"?


I and Dawkins are not certain that God doesn't exist, because we're both agnostic atheists, you dumbass, that's the difference


Materialism is a religious buzzword


lol Why are you always wrong?


Is it? Did I ever say that it is?


Verified how? By whom?


What would you know about an argument
Season 2 Episode 1 Spain GIF by National Geographic Channel
 

AN2

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lol

I said that it seems obvious how YOU account for them

Jaze, can you not read


I'm honestly not sure what the relevance of that is, is it to say that NDEs are "real"? 🤔


Materialist is a religious buzzword


"It's not X, it's Y" 🙄

What am I "evading"?


I and Dawkins are not certain that God doesn't exist, because we're both agnostic atheists, you dumbass, that's the difference


Materialism is a religious buzzword


lol Why are you always wrong?


Is it? Did I ever say that it is?


Verified how? By whom?
What would you know about an argument
QED
 

BIG FAT HOOR

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For crying out loud James, the pattern is always the same: you ask questions not in the pursuit of truth, but as a way of dodging it.

Your questions multiply endlessly because you have no answers of your own; they are simply placeholders to disguise the void. In all of our discussions, the substance comes from me, while you retreat into the safety of another question. And I have no doubt you will respond to this with yet another question, because that is your tediously predictable routine.

Am I certain that God exists? Absolutely; though not in the shallow, mechanistic sense an atheist like you demands, as if the Divine could be trapped under a microscope. My certainty comes from the convergence of multiple lines of evidence, rational and experiential, which together form a reality too cohesive to ignore.

First, reason itself inclines toward God. The human intellect is not satisfied with randomness; we are ordered toward truth, beauty, and final causes. To insist that this innate longing for transcendence is an evolutionary accident is like claiming hunger proves there is no such thing as food.

Second, the universe is not a chaos but a cosmos: governed by laws so finely tuned that physicists themselves admit its order is mathematically improbable to the point of absurdity without a Designer.

Then there is my life experience. I watched my pregnant wife fall down a staircase, only to be caught; literally placed on the ground as if by unseen hands. She herself testified it was her guardian angel. They way she was caught mid-fall and placed on the ground is physically impossible. At nineteen, I was pulled 10 yards out of the path of a joyrider’s car (which was inches from me) in an instant by someone, but there was nobody around. At my grandmother’s deathbed, she spoke of seeing heaven while an unearthly fragrance filled the nursing home, drawing nurses from around the nursing home into the room by its sweetness. I witnessed similar phenomena at my own mother’s passing. Add to this the testimony of those I know personally who were clinically dead, yet returned describing experiences astonishingly consistent with thousands of other near-death accounts across cultures and centuries: overwhelming peace, light, and presence. There are too many life experiences to mention.

So yes; I am certain, because reason, order, providential interventions, and the witness of the dying all point in the same direction. To deny God in the face of such cumulative evidence is not intellectual rigor, but intellectual cowardice. And this leads to the real question: if atheists are so confident that consciousness is extinguished at death, how do they account for the uncanny consistency of near-death experiences, testified by millions, and even verified under clinical conditions?

I recall that you used to regularly tell Fishalt that he was a coward for pulling the ‘agnostic’ card. And yet here you are doing the same now. Wishy-washy nonsense.
There have been several times in my life where I had "" another influence"" --I am one of the luckiest people alive .
I have described my life as being reared in a tumble drier .
I had a highly intelligent hugely destructive junkie/alcoholic as one parent and my father was in and out of intensive care for years and we were gathered by the hospitals to say our goodbyes on several occasions while I was put in boarding school to escape the alcoholic.
I was a total dizzy gobshite --I never knew what day sometimes what month it was -I had no idea what would happen tomorrow all I knew it would be mad as usual.
I drove a minibus at 16 for the FCA and I did a local bus service at 16 also when I was home as I was almost 6ft at 16 .
I am eternally grateful to the wonderful Sargent Dommo Doyle who spoke to me and mentored occasionally while I was parked at the range in the curragh and at 3 castles firing range .
he knew I had no money or food for the day and approx 1400 from a giant series of cardboard suitcases came the best ham sandwiches of my life with army tea made with sugar milk and tealeaves all together in the burko boiler .
he knew a lot more than he let on and I silently observed him for hours each day and I was 4 days a week with various fca companies parked with sheep and sheep shit for company all day long .
I observed his relationship with officers and I swore beneath my breath I would die before I would call any man sir and I secretly raged with the notion I would rid the world of all and any body who insisted I call them sir .
it took an age before I calmed down enough to see the respect from all the officers was profound for this man who did his job to perfection and he ran the day which involved a great deal of logistics and up to 300 men to be munitioned and supplied with food and arms and proper records kept of scores and refereed .
I slowly saw and more through slow osmosis learned that Dommo was a very tough man and truly unafraid of anything and had soldiered in various parts of Africa and elsewhere and was widely respected as a great soldier by all who knew him .
I discovered that when you are a total gobshite you need a huge amount of time with a figure you respect and you need the timeless time beyond measure where the silence is only broken By the whisper of sheepshit hitting the grass for you to absorb the importance of what you are witness to .
I took a long time but my mind saw Dommo Doyle in action --I saw things happen --important things which would not have happened if I were in charge .
for the first time in my life my peers were soldiers and the fork in the road I was presented with as all young me are --could have taken a dark turn but for the great Sargent Doyle who never knew the huge effect he had on me and I met him in a deli some 30 years later and I asked him could I speak with him .
I had a major job to keep from breaking down trying to explain what he had taught me and he supplied the backbone I needed so many times later on -- he smiled in his humble way when I told him nobody can cure a gobshite ,
he needs not hours of work he needs weeks of work for him to absorb the smallest thing and then incrementally day by day he regains his normal essence to deal with the world in a healthy fashion.
I tried to tell him how much I owed him but it was impossible to explain the madhouse I came from and he was the only light in that period and he never knew .
life is a school and American's have a saying ""difficult people are the faculty of life "".
I survived and went on to go to mad places at mad times and almost got killed on more than one occasion in Russia and Bangladesh and India .
I met all kinds and somehow got warning of their ill intent and I have been attacked by groups at different times of my life and I have survived .
on one occasion I was thrown 18ft through the air by being struck by travellers a transit van-- it should have killed me and it took me 2 years to learn to walk normally again.
time and time again I have felt the presence of not a person but almost a committee who say today is not the day .
I most importantly have been presented with life in a certain manner at times and had I been presented at a time I was more stressed or without the mental or physical or financial resources to deal with whatever was happening --it would have been a disaster --but the committee were in charge minding me and I have escaped huge misfortune so far .
I do not have the brains to explain further .
I am not unburdening my self----- I am merely as honestly as I can--- ( AS YOU NEED TO BE HONEST) ---trying to explain to anyone who reads this that great things happen when you are in the company of great people --take care what environment you choose to live in and somehow the committee will find you and then see you.
 

AN2

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I just can't get over how stupid @Tiger is

He's one of those people who just when you think you realise how stupid he is.. you realise that he's stupider than that
 

Myles O'Reilly

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For crying out loud James, the pattern is always the same: you ask questions not in the pursuit of truth, but as a way of dodging it.Your questions multiply endlessly because you have no answers of your own; they are simply placeholders to disguise the void. In all of our discussions, the substance comes from me, while you retreat into the safety of another question. And I have no doubt you will respond to this with yet another question, because that is your tediously predictable routine.Am I certain that God exists? Absolutely; though not in the shallow, mechanistic sense an atheist like you demands, as if the Divine could be trapped under a microscope. My certainty comes from the convergence of multiple lines of evidence, rational and experiential, which together form a reality too cohesive to ignore.First, reason itself inclines toward God. The human intellect is not satisfied with randomness; we are ordered toward truth, beauty, and final causes. To insist that this innate longing for transcendence is an evolutionary accident is like claiming hunger proves there is no such thing as food.Second, the universe is not a chaos but a cosmos: governed by laws so finely tuned that physicists themselves admit its order is mathematically improbable to the point of absurdity without a Designer.Then there is my life experience. I watched my pregnant wife fall down a staircase, only to be caught; literally placed on the ground as if by unseen hands. She herself testified it was her guardian angel. They way she was caught mid-fall and placed on the ground is physically impossible. At nineteen, I was pulled 10 yards out of the path of a joyrider’s car (which was inches from me) in an instant by someone, but there was nobody around. At my grandmother’s deathbed, she spoke of seeing heaven while an unearthly fragrance filled the nursing home, drawing nurses from around the nursing home into the room by its sweetness. I witnessed similar phenomena at my own mother’s passing. Add to this the testimony of those I know personally who were clinically dead, yet returned describing experiences astonishingly consistent with thousands of other near-death accounts across cultures and centuries: overwhelming peace, light, and presence. There are too many life experiences to mention.
So yes; I am certain, because reason, order, providential interventions, and the witness of the dying all point in the same direction. To deny God in the face of such cumulative evidence is not intellectual rigor, but intellectual cowardice. And this leads to the real question: if atheists are so confident that consciousness is extinguished at death, how do they account for the uncanny consistency of near-death experiences, testified by millions, and even verified under clinical conditions?I recall that you used to regularly tell Fishalt that he was a coward for pulling the ‘agnostic’ card. And yet here you are doing the same now. Wishy-washy nonsense.
No offence mate but that's not the first time you've sound like an AI answer.
 

Tiger

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No offence mate but that's not the first time you've sound like an AI answer.
No offence taken Myles. Like James; you can barely read or write. You don’t know when you are coming or going most days. This is the best form of attack ye both have.

James once accused one of my posts as being doing by a professional journalist.

Two idiots in a pod.
 

AN2

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No offence taken Myles. Like James; you can barely read or write. You don’t know when you are coming or going most days. This is the best form of attack ye both have.
James once accused one of my posts as being doing by a professional journalist.
lol No, not quite

I said that your posts come across as if they were a published article, rather than a post someone would write on a message board. More evidence really that you're using a bot to write your dumb posts

Two idiots in a pod.
 

Tiger

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lol No, not quite

I said that your posts come across as if they were a published article, rather than a post someone would write on a message board. More evidence really that you're using a bot to write your dumb posts
Yes quite.

The accusations are a compliment, as the posts are purely my own. So, it’s clearly coming from a position of inferiority.
 

AN2

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Yes quite.

The accusations are a compliment, as the posts are purely my own. So, it’s clearly coming from a position of inferiority.
I've said that your posts are dumb, verbose, nonsense.. so I'm not giving you a compliment. I was talking about how they read (and I'm not the only one)
 

Tiger

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I've said that your posts are dumb, verbose, nonsense.. so I'm not giving you a compliment. I was talking about how they read (and I'm not the only one)
James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson…

Firstly - what is consciousness?

And if consciousness is entirely reducible to brain activity, how do you account for rigorously documented death experiences, such as those in the Lancet study by Pim van Lommel; where patients reported accurate perceptions of their surroundings during periods of flatlined EEG and absent cortical activity. In other words, how can veridical conscious experience occur in the total absence of measurable brain function and why is there such commonality in these death experiences regardless of the cultural or religious background of the person who dies?
 

AN2

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James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson…

Firstly - what is consciousness?

And if consciousness is entirely reducible to brain activity, how do you account for rigorously documented death experiences, such as those in the Lancet study by Pim van Lommel; where patients reported accurate perceptions of their surroundings during periods of flatlined EEG and absent cortical activity. In other words, how can veridical conscious experience occur in the total absence of measurable brain function and why is there such commonality in these death experiences regardless of the cultural or religious background of the person who dies?
I asked you several questions in post #880 which you just replied to with a gif

If you want to engage any of those questions then perhaps we could move on..
 

Tiger

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I asked you several questions in post #880 which you just replied to with a gif

If you want to engage any of those questions then perhaps we could move on..
James ‘the question dodger’ Dawson strikes again!

Tiger 2 - 0 Jambo
 

Tiger

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See that’s the thing James ‘the dodger’ Dawson.; I asked the question above over 24 hours ago; long before your diversionary inane question’s at post 880. So…get in the queue.

Our conversations are always entirely one way. You react to things I say and always ask questions were answers should be. Your questions are endless because you have no answers.

Round and round we go.

circle GIF
 

AN2

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See that’s the thing James ‘the dodger’ Dawson.; I asked the question above over 24 hours ago; long before your diversionary inane question’s at post 880. So…get in the queue.

Our conversations are always entirely one way. You react to things I say and always ask questions were answers should be. Your questions are endless because you have no answers.

Round and round we go.

circle GIF
Your question nay demand was how do I account for NDEs, is that correct?
 

Myles O'Reilly

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You are right of course Tiger. James is so ashamed by his hero's thought's on immigration that he won't reveal them.

Which begs the question why does he follow him if his positions are so embarrassing?
 

AN2

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You are right of course Tiger. James is so ashamed by his hero's thought's on immigration that he won't reveal them.

Which begs the question why does he follow him if his positions are so embarrassing?
This is obvious trolling / derailing @jpc
 

Tiger

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You keep dodging my questions Sir.
Myles, 95% of your statements/questions go straight in the bin because of how stupid they are on the face of it.

You claimed to have rejected the Faith, but as someone raised in the 1970’s and 80’s you never had any formation in the faith. You were unformed rather than formed. All you know is a Father Ted styled hollowed caricature deliberately engineered to produce what you became - an atheist with no understanding of the thing you imagine you’ve rejected.

If you were given even a most basic test on Catholic doctrine; you’d fail with flying colours.
 

AN2

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Myles, 95% of your statements/questions go straight in the bin because of how stupid they are on the face of it.
Here's a good one -

Post in thread 'A new book on the UFO, Alien Hoax' https://www.sarsfieldsvirtualpub.com/threads/a-new-book-on-the-ufo-alien-hoax.1277/post-141247

Of course, it's well known that people below a certain IQ (i.e yours) can't answer hypothetical ("what if") questions

The only sensible thing you did was keep schtum

You claimed to have rejected the Faith, but as someone raised in the 1970’s and 80’s you never had any formation in the faith. You were unformed rather than formed. All you know is a Father Ted styled hollowed caricature deliberately engineered to produce what you became - an atheist with no understanding of the thing you imagine you’ve rejected.

If you were given even a most basic test on Catholic doctrine; you’d fail with flying colours.
 

AN2

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Your question nay demand was how do I account for NDEs, is that correct?
^ Crickets

It takes a helluva lot to get him to shut up i.e. for him to have an inkling of how much of a fool he's making of himself
 

Tiger

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^ Crickets

It takes a helluva lot to get him to shut up i.e. for him to have an inkling of how much of a fool he's making of himself
Crickets? …you asked that question 20 minutes ago you drunken fool. You’ve a neck like a jockey’s bollox moaning about a question going 20 mins without a reply given your habitual schtick were questions NEVER get a reply.

Anyway; I realise that this is a monumental waste of time but here goes…


What is consciousness?

And, if consciousness is nothing but brain activity, how do you account for rigourously documented Near Death Experiences during flatlined EEGs, when hallucinations are neurologically impossible without active cortical function? And if these were mere hallucinations shaped by culture, why do we see such striking cross-cultural consistency; life reviews, veridical perceptions, encounters with beings of light; even among people with no exposure to these motifs?

Also, why do dead Hindus and atheists always report encounters with Christ instead of culturally expected figures like Shiva or the Buddha, and in many documented cases with people with no knowledge of Christianity? On what scientific grounds can you explain both the persistence of consciousness without brain activity and the universal convergence of these experiences?
 
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AN2

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Crickets? …you asked that question 20 minutes ago you drunken fool.
In post #880, I asked you several, completely reasonable questions relating to NDEs

What is the relevance of the "consistency across cultures and medical contexts"? (Also offering a suggestion)

Have I ever said that "consciousness is only brain activity"?

How are "verifiable perceptions" verified and by whom?

You didn't answer any of those questions. Instead you childishly replied to the post with a gif

Stop making a fool of yourself, you've been at it for two days straight

You’ve a neck like a jockey’s bollox moaning about a question going 20 mins without a reply given your habitual schtick were questions NEVER get a reply.

Anyway; I realise that this is a monumental waste of time but here goes…


What is consciousness?

And, if consciousness is nothing but brain activity, how do you account for rigourously documented Near Death Experiences during flatlined EEGs, when hallucinations are neurologically impossible without active cortical function? And if these were mere hallucinations shaped by culture, why do we see such striking cross-cultural consistency; life reviews, veridical perceptions, encounters with beings of light; even among people with no exposure to these motifs?

Also, why do dead Hindus and atheists always report encounters with Christ instead of culturally expected figures like Shiva or the Buddha, and in many documented cases with people with no knowledge of Christianity? On what scientific grounds can you explain both the persistence of consciousness without brain activity and the universal convergence of these experiences?
 

Tiger

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In post #880, I asked you several, completely reasonable questions relating to NDEs

What is the relevance of the "consistency across cultures and medical contexts"? (Also offering a suggestion)

Have I ever said that "consciousness is only brain activity"?

How are "verifiable perceptions" verified and by whom?

You didn't answer any of those questions. Instead you childishly replied to the post with a gif

Stop making a fool of yourself, you've been at it for two days straight
You never SAY anything, you just reply with questions.

Let’s start with - What is consciousness?
 

AN2

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You never SAY anything, you just reply with questions.

Let’s start with - What is consciousness?
I've said that I'm prepared to carry on with your demand.. but you need to make some clarifications first

What is the relevance of the "consistency across cultures and medical contexts"? (Also offering a suggestion)

Have I ever said that "consciousness is only brain activity"?

How are "verifiable perceptions" verified and by whom?
 

AN2

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I have to agree. I think he's high on the spectrum or something.
A spectrum of greatness

Intelligence isn't really that hard (even you could get on the ladder).. You just need to be logical and seek clarity and of course, truth
 

Tiger

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I've said that I'm prepared to carry on with your demand.. but you need to make some clarifications first

What is the relevance of the "consistency across cultures and medical contexts"? (Also offering a suggestion)
Oh look I’m doing all the talking again, what a surprise…

Well, for example if NDE's were simply nothing but hallucinations, we’d expect them to look completely different from culture to culture; a Hindu seeing Hindu gods, a Christian seeing Christ, an atheist seeing nothing at all. But instead, we see the same core pattern across the world: leaving the body, reviewing one’s life, and meeting a being of light. That universality is exactly what you would not expect from random brain activity, but precisely what you’d expect if consciousness really does survive death. Hallucinations or dreams would vary wildly by culture, but NDEs show the same core pattern worldwide; which makes no sense if they’re brain noise, but perfect sense if they’re real.

Have I ever said that "consciousness is only brain activity"?

As stated yesterday, you hardly ever SAY anything. You skirt around subjects and ask endless questions - however, , if (as a self professed devout atheist) you deny the soul, then the default implication is that consciousness is fully reducible to brain states. If you hold another view, I’d be interested to hear what non-materialist explanation you’re offering.

How are "verifiable perceptions" verified and by whom?

They’re verified in controlled clinical contexts ; for example, in Pim van Lommel’s Lancet study and Sam Parnia’s AWARE project. Patients described highly specific details (surgical instruments, conversations, procedures) during periods of no measurable brain activity (because they're dead), and these were independently corroborated by medical staff. That is what makes them veridical perceptions rather than subjective hallucinations.
 
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AN2

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Oh look I’m doing all the talking again, what a surprise…

Well, for example if NDE's were simply nothing but hallucinations, we’d expect them to look completely different from culture to culture; a Hindu seeing Hindu gods, a Christian seeing Christ, an atheist seeing nothing at all. But instead, we see the same core pattern across the world: leaving the body, reviewing one’s life, and meeting a being of light. That universality is exactly what you would not expect from random brain activity, but precisely what you’d expect if consciousness really does survive death. Hallucinations or dreams would vary wildly by culture, but NDEs show the same core pattern worldwide; which makes no sense if they’re brain noise, but perfect sense if they’re real.
So my suggestion was correct, this was for you to say that NDEs are "real"

As stated yesterday, you hardly ever SAY anything. You skirt around subjects and ask endless questions - however, , if (as a self professed devout atheist) you deny the soul, then the default implication is that consciousness is fully reducible to brain states. If you hold another view, I’d be interested to hear what non-materialist explanation you’re offering.
This question required a simple yes or no. I await your answer..

They’re verified in controlled clinical contexts ; for example, in Pim van Lommel’s Lancet study and Sam Parnia’s AWARE project. Patients described highly specific details (surgical instruments, conversations, procedures) during periods of no measurable brain activity (because they're dead), and these were independently corroborated by medical staff. That is what makes them veridical perceptions rather than subjective hallucinations.
Have the researchers said that their findings are evidence of a "soul" or have religious people latched on to their findings to say that it is (which would come as a surprise to nobody)?
 

clarke-connolly

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I just hope that the Christians are preparing for the Coming War with Islam ? !

Has the War with Islam ever stopped, ever ? !
 

AN2

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I just hope that the Christians are preparing for the Coming War with Islam ? !

Has the War with Islam ever stopped, ever ? !
HI @clarke-connolly and welcome to the Atheist thread

A couple of things..

Could you please provide your registration number, it should in the top right-hand corner of your screen now

And could you please answer the following questions;

Do you know what atheism is?
 

clarke-connolly

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HI @clarke-connolly and welcome to the Atheist thread

A couple of things..

Could you please provide your registration number, it should in the top right-hand corner of your screen now

And could you please answer the following questions;

Do you know what atheism is?
I am waiting for God to explain it to me !
 

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