Origins Thread

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
Are we not the same as most of the other Earthling's. Even the birds and fish - We're similar!!😊


I think you are missing the point.

The point is that DNA is a fundamental component of almost all living organisms, acting as the repository of genetic information necessary for life processes. There’s no way for it to gradually come into being in a step-by-step Darwinian way.

While DNA and computer code both serve as mediums for encoding complex instructions and information, they operate in fundamentally different realms—biological versus digital. The analogy is useful for understanding the complexity and organization of genetic information, but the processes and contexts in which they function are distinct.

DNA and computer code share several similarities, making the analogy between them quite insightful.
 

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
Bears hibernate. Herpes viruses lysogenize. Worms form a dauer stage. Insects enter diapause. Amphibians aestivate. Birds go into torpor. All of these are words for the exact same thing: a dormant state that organisms can reverse when conditions are favorable.

 

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
How the Myth of Junk DNA Hindered Science - Andrew McDiarmid


For decades, we’ve been told that only a tiny percentage of DNA is functional and that the vast majority is useless junk.
 

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
Chromatin, the tightly packaged form of DNA within the nucleus, plays a central role in regulating gene expression and maintaining genomic integrity.

This complex structure relies on a fascinating interplay between ordered and disordered protein regions.

Phylogenetics has identified IDP with no change in function over a billion years. No evolution over a billion years! This is due to the fact IDP can sustain mutations with no change to their function. This is in direct opposition to gradual evolution by accumulating mutations with neo-Darwinism.

 

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
Cross-Species Comparative DNA Methylation Reveals Novel Insights into Complex Trait Genetics among Cattle, Sheep, and Goats"

The MS view of complex traits focuses on the additive effects of numerous genes, often with small individual influences. This view struggles to explain how seemingly minor methylation changes, not directly altering the DNA sequence itself, can have significant impacts on traits like milk production or wool quality.

The MS view doesn't fully account for the dynamic interplay between genes, environment, and epigenetic modifications like DNA methylation.

 

Professor

Reading a Good Book
Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
3,155
Reaction score
2,396
Location
Too Totalitarian to Talk - Very Very Scary Town
Yeah but, How about these, I just initially stumbled upon in the quick search to compare the various similarities in Humans such as neanderthal, cro magnon & various Homo's

Just in this quick snap we see huge similarities between us all (Mammalian Ape Types)

ape_skeletons_540w-3701553113.jpg

🍌🍌🍌 :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: jpc

PlunkettsGhost

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
4,255
Reaction score
4,129
Yeah but, How about these, I just initially stumbled upon in the quick search to compare the various similarities in Humans such as neanderthal, cro magnon & various Homo's

Just in this quick snap we see huge similarities between us all (Mammalian Ape Types)

View attachment 5838
🍌🍌🍌 :D
Cats and dogs have similar skeletal morphology. What's your point?
 

PlunkettsGhost

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
4,255
Reaction score
4,129
Yeah but, How about these, I just initially stumbled upon in the quick search to compare the various similarities in Humans such as neanderthal, cro magnon & various Homo's

Just in this quick snap we see huge similarities between us all (Mammalian Ape Types)

View attachment 5838
🍌🍌🍌 :D
why do they all look like they are about to fall over?
 

Professor

Reading a Good Book
Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
3,155
Reaction score
2,396
Location
Too Totalitarian to Talk - Very Very Scary Town
Cats and dogs have similar skeletal morphology. What's your point?
Simply because there is evidence (from the drawing) to suggest that we all come from very similar origins.

why do they all look like they are about to fall over?
Because it's drawn in a style artists employ to describe posture and movement?

;)
 

PlunkettsGhost

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
4,255
Reaction score
4,129
Simply because there is evidence (from the drawing) to suggest that we all come from very similar origins.


Because it's drawn in a style artists employ to describe posture and movement?

;)
There is no fossil evidence indicating a horse and a man have the same predecessor . Yet we both have ribs, a skull, vertebrate spine, and 4 limbs.
 

Professor

Reading a Good Book
Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
3,155
Reaction score
2,396
Location
Too Totalitarian to Talk - Very Very Scary Town
There is no fossil evidence indicating a horse and a man have the same predecessor . Yet we both have ribs, a skull, vertebrate spine, and 4 limbs.
Yeah but, we've got to be realistic and think outside of the box at the possibilities.
There may not be much fossil evidence so far because of the massive changes that have occurred since the evolutionary split.

Look I've researched none of this but I'm suggesting that circumstances and conditions caused our grand daddy to undergo changes and fork off toward where we are today - This pre- sapien may have been very small in number to start with in a unique environment.
Topography, bizarre environments, special foods and lifestyles led to physical changes.
There may have been interstellar radio activity from a meteor strike which led to their alterations or many other incredible factors(including God) - The thing is, it only had to happen in a small region to make the change, to us.
 

PlunkettsGhost

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
4,255
Reaction score
4,129
Yeah but, we've got to be realistic and think outside of the box at the possibilities.
There may not be much fossil evidence so far because of the massive changes that have occurred since the evolutionary split.

Look I've researched none of this but I'm suggesting that circumstances and conditions caused our grand daddy to undergo changes and fork off toward where we are today - This pre- sapien may have been very small in number to start with in a unique environment.
Topography, bizarre environments, special foods and lifestyles led to physical changes.
There may have been interstellar radio activity from a meteor strike which led to their alterations or many other incredible factors(including God) - The thing is, it only had to happen in a small region to make the change, to us.
It's all just magical thinking without hard evidence and data. And how far back did the Horse/Man split occur? This is fundamental to establish. It can't have been too far back, say, two fish that diverged. Then you have to convince people that the two evolving fish just happened onto the same mechanical design motif later on, accidentally, without any exterior input. What does the statistical math on that look like? Not good I'm guessing .
 
Last edited:

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
Yeah but, How about these, I just initially stumbled upon in the quick search to compare the various similarities in Humans such as neanderthal, cro magnon & various Homo's

Just in this quick snap we see huge similarities between us all (Mammalian Ape Types)

View attachment 5838
🍌🍌🍌 :D

Professor, using homogeneous structures as some sort of proof of Darwinian evolution takes the debate back to where it was 100 years ago.

No serious scientists uses it anymore. That debate ended with the invention of powerful microscopes. These powerful microscopes show what life is made of at a cellular level.

The concept of homogenous bone structures as an argument in evolutionary science refers to the idea that bones in different species might appear very similar at a superficial level, suggesting a common design or origin. This idea was more prominent before the advent of advanced scientific tools, like the microscope.

Once the microscope was invented and began to be used extensively in scientific research, it allowed for a much more detailed examination of bone structures at a cellular level. This new perspective revealed significant differences in the microstructures of bones among different species, which were not apparent from merely looking at the gross anatomy.

For instance, under the microscope, scientists could observe the arrangement and types of bone cells (osteocytes), the patterns of bone matrix deposition, and the vascular channels (Haversian systems). These microscopic features varied significantly among species, even if their overall bone shapes appeared similar.

Moreover, the detailed study of bone histology (the microscopic study of bone tissue) showed how bones grow and remodel differently in various species, reflecting their distinct designs. These findings were incompatible with the notion of homogenous bone structures.

Thus, the use of the microscope in studying bones provided concrete, detailed evidence that refuted the idea of homogenous bone structures across species, making it clear that bones, while sometimes superficially similar, are actually quite diverse at the microscopic level.
 
Last edited:

Tiger

Well-known member
Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2023
Messages
1,549
Reaction score
1,800
How observable (not imaginary) "Evolutionary changes" should be interpreted.

Whenever you read in the news that "something evolved" - these are either epigenetic changes or adaptive mutations through the loss of function. I'll try to explain both briefly and try to understand this because you will have to apply this framework to all future and past news. Don't be deceived.

1) Epigenetics.
DNA in the genome can be tagged in specific places with special molecules that change gene function but keep the DNA sequence intact—a field of study called epigenetics. Epigenetic changes are dynamic and controlled by complicated cellular systems. They enable incredible levels of fine-tuned, environment-specific adjustments within organisms without any DNA sequence modifications whatsoever. Offspring can even inherit many of these epigenetic changes.
Epigenetic mechanisms are helpful at some future, unknown, time when the environmental challenge finally presents itself. They are useless when they initially arise, and so would not be preserved by evolution's mythical natural selection.
These are two mice with IDENTICAL DNA, however different expression of this DNA (different epigenetic tags)

We already have emperical examples of huge phenotypic changes which were attained very rapidly and were adaptive. And I'll pose some of the examples below which I found remarkable.

We already have emperical examples of huge phenotypic changes which were attained very rapidly and were adaptive. And I'll pose some of the examples below which I found remarkable.

1) Italian lizard acquired new organ in few decades- a gut valve after changing its environment . Without gene sequence alteration https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080417112433.htm

2) stickleback fish rapidly acquired huge morphological changes without gene sequence alteration after changing its environment and waters

3) Unable to move and facing starvation, the bacteria evolve a replacement flagellum - a rotating tail-like structure which acts like an outboard motor - by patching together a new genetic switch with borrowed parts."But the hotwiring comes at a cost. The replacement key is a molecule borrowed from a system which regulates nitrogen levels. The mutant bacteria can now move, but it can't regulate nitrogen properly, which can build up and become toxic. Of course, it's an evolutionary price worth paying when the alternative is certain death."

4) "Consistent components of complex traits, such as those linked to human stature/height, fertility, and food metabolism or to hereditary defects, have been shown to respond to environmental or nutritional condition and to be epigenetically inherited

5) Studies of fish, birds, amphibians and insects suggest that adaptations that were, initially, environmentally induced may promote colonization of new environments and facilitate speciation5, 6. Some of the best-studied examples of this are in fishes, such as sticklebacks and Arctic char. Differences in the diets and conditions of fish living at the bottom and in open water have induced distinct body forms, which seem to be evolving reproductive isolation, a stage in forming new species.

6) And my favourite example is a cichlid fish wich diversified rapidly without gene sequence alteration

7) The beaks of Darwin's finches change through epigenetic process, not because natural selection kills particular finches with certain beaks during drought or normal climate conditions, but because of distinct dietes


8) The second example is an "Evolution through loss of function mutations". It's very common in nature. As an example I'll bring a car which runs out the fuel. In order this car to go further one can jettison the door of the car, its audio system, mirrors. Car will become lighter and can go more distance. However this is definitely a reduction in car's complexity.
I'll give you one more example. Imagine two enemies fighting each other. When one enemy attacks the other in order to survive the one who is attacked demolishes his bridge the enemy couldn't cross the border and kill him. Of course breaking the bridge he will survive, but this will not explain how the bridge appeared in the first place.

This is how it works. Such type of changes even being adaptive, never explain the origin of specified complexity and complex features.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jpc

Professor

Reading a Good Book
Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
3,155
Reaction score
2,396
Location
Too Totalitarian to Talk - Very Very Scary Town
Right so, I've had illuminations and new ideas over dinner in regard to modern mans origins, worth sharing and testing.
So we arrive at a period long ago where early primitive man can be found, which according to wiki sources is 1.5 million years ago approx.

Any way dates and things aren't of such importance now, what is important is that we see various different humanoid creatures coming and going since way back then.

Now we must imagine a time when there were no modern sapiens around but that was about to change by virtue of Selective Breeding on a unique scale for what ever reason, so for example lets take an easy scenario which can explain what could have happened

To start with let's say that environment played a part and due to diet, location and habitat we find a group of early humans found an ideal location with ample food, wide variety of plants, fresh water and complex topography - or maybe it was an island where the tribe located but where ever it was the main thing is that they were safe from predators and diseases and consequently they lived long lives - like the hunza.

So we have this early tribe living in paradise with many village elders and because they are safe and well supplied then they have plenty of time to exploit their environment and learn . . .

They learn about breeding, they observe characteristics and they start to selectively breed themselves.

They discover yoga and start to stretch themselves out, they discover herbs which gives the brain a boost, they wear tight rings around their heads which changes the skull shape, while helping to expand their consciousness.
They become clever with the plants and animals in their region, they learn how to achieve better results by capitalising as a biped, after all they need to carry variety of tools while 'on the hoof'
Lips shape changes, muscle mass changes, foot size changes, neck length changes according to chosen design.

They become aware of their superiority and protect their group from the lesser humans but being in paradise they rarely see any other groups and so are free to concentrate on their own ideas which are so much more complex than the other early humans of the time.
circumstances, conditions, nutrients, resources, peculiarity, Breeding = Evolution you can measure - differences apparent! 🧐
 
  • Clever
Reactions: jpc

Latest Threads

Popular Threads

Top Bottom