Who really killed Michael Collins?

[valamhic]

I would not thrust and ex army man. Most iof the members of the Irish Army were donkeys and the discipline system is archaic,

What were they all doing fighting for Britain ?

 

[Anderson]

I would not thrust and ex army man. Most iof the members of the Irish Army were donkeys and the discipline system is archaic,

What were they all doing fighting for Britain ?

Did they not have a choice ?

 

[valamhic]

Did they not have a choice ?

They could stay away bit money was scarce. I would join the German army if I had a choice.

 

[Declan]

No he was in an open "touring car", I think a Leyland. It was open meaning a canvass roof which was pulled down. True I don't think anybody had much training as sort of VIP protection, but for ambushes yes.

That was always my understanding anyways.

 

[valamhic]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLrGnImYCwU

 

[scolairebocht]

I think he was even the producer for 'the spy who came in from the cold', shot in Dublin

 

[Anderson]

If Collins had not died does anyone think Ireland would be different today?

Obviously, he would have long passed if he had a long-filled life, but he would have surely been instrumental in Ireland's affairs up to his retirement, would he have been President, Taoiseach, or just quit altogether?

 

[Declan]

If he was still going at 75 it would bring him to 1966!!!!!!

 

[Anderson]

If he was still going at 75 it would bring him to 1966!!!!!!

Celebrate England's world cup success!

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Bocht your tarnishing of Dalton is a very bad deed Sir.

 

[valamhic]

Another great account.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P62Ivc_H4EA

 

[scolairebocht]

I only go where the evidence leads me, I think a lot of that period is in need of a fresh look (which I did in the 'conspiracy theory' book.)
Realistically if he was in British Intelligence during the two World Wars, which seems reasonably well proven, then its got to be quite possible that he did this or witnessed it.

That he was killed by the 'Irregulars' is described on facebook as the 'simplest explanation'. Of course it isn't the 'simplest' explanation, its just the media and establishment one. It isn't simple at all to understand how one bullet silences instantly Collins' life while nobody else is scratched during that very brief engagement on either side, except one small injury to one other person.

It is in fact the 'simplest' thing for a person standing 6 yards from the victim to kill him, much simpler and certain than somebody 200 or 300 yards away. And its much simpler to understand a person doing this for money and on behalf of the British and Irish governments - there are always large numbers of Irish people who know no other motivation except money, and who believe that what is right is what those governments say is right -, because obviously they would then protect him, than somebody doing this to an Irish national hero (among both sides, as Tom Barry pointed out) for any other motivation.

When you understand how much your media is tied into intelligence agencies, who lie to you all the time about everything, you realise how much you have to let go of their explanation of events, no matter how reinforced it has been by the media/establishment then and since.

Anyway here is a fascinating debate that Patrick Mullooly, the quartermaster of the North Roscommon Brigade in the War of Independence, had about this. While working in a railway yard, and while in the IRA, he was nearly killed by two trains suddenly appearing out of nowhere, going opposite directions with him catastrophically in the middle. He was nearly killed and at the time thought it was just a coincidence and 'one of those things' but in after years he wondered further about it:

"In later years as I became, through experience, acquainted with the falsity, deceit, jealousy, treachery and devlish propensities of human nature. I often gravely doubted, that it could have been an attempt by my sinister superiors to get rid of an encumbrance, a danger to their gangster, and cheap tricks because of my innocent independence and refusal to lick their shoes and because in my defence I reported the incident of the Frenchman and the missing £4,000 from the mails.
...
The goods train was dispatched to meet the incoming passenger train and timed to a split second. This was not my experience before or after. Had not the country greenhorn kept a cool head, for him the end had come.

Such incidents sometimes happen by accident and sometimes by design but the fact remains that they did happen in the past and shall also happen in the future, and all this ruminating has brought another incident to my mind which in the hearts' belief of all decent-minded men and women was, is, and always will be regarded as a great national disaster and also a great national disgrace. I refer here to the death of Michael Collins. Was it intention, well premediated and according to plan or just an accident of war? Was it conceived in jealousy by former comrades, or by former comrades who feared Collins knew too much for their own peace of mind? Or was it the act of the English Secret Service in revenge for the shooting of General Wilson by the I.R.B. in London? I fear Mick was too trusting of friend and foe alike. I will leave it at that, but the time is ripe to have the truth revealed and his mysterious death thoroughly probed and investigated while some of them who surely must be aware of the facts are still alive. I swear there would be less Anti-Partition humbug and buncombe were he alive today. Such hypocrisy would neither be tolerated or necessary."
(Patrick Mullooly, Bureau of Military History Witness Statement no.1,087, p.2-4.)

 

[Declan]

Many posts were deleted so I have restored them and the thread should be now reread @AUL LAD

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

That he was killed by the 'Irregulars' is described on facebook as the 'simplest explanation'. Of course it isn't the 'simplest' explanation, its just the media and establishment one. It isn't simple at all to understand how one bullet silences instantly Collins' life while nobody else is scratched during that very brief engagement on either side, except one small injury to one other person.

It is in fact the 'simplest' thing for a person standing 6 yards from the victim to kill him, much simpler and certain than somebody 200 or 300 yards away.

And its the simplest thing to suggest everyone in the Free State convoy was in on it and no-body spoke out about murdering the Commander in Chief?

According to your logic anyone killed in a 250 yard gunfight must surely have been killed by their own forces standing beside them because its easier or "simpler" that way.

Come on Bocht, stop acting the fool.

 

[Mad as Fish]

If he was still going at 75 it would bring him to 1966!!!!!!

His father was 75 when he sired young Michael, having married a girl 37 years his junior.

Fair play to the fellow.

 

[Declan]

And if you believe that, you would believe anything. A 38 year old woman marries a 75 year old for one reason only. She likely married the jockey anf new large farmer, a few years later

 

[Mad as Fish]

And if you believe that, you would believe anything. A 38 year old woman marries a 75 year old for one reason only. She likely married the jockey anf new large farmer, a few years later

He was 60 and she was 23 when they married. But of course there is always that possibility.

 

[Declan]

She took the Under and lost then and for sure she had a jockey on the side

 

[Mad as Fish]

She took the Under and lost then and for sure she had a jockey on the side

Any suggestions who that might be? Not that I want to detract from the thread with gossip!

 

[AUL LAD]

And if you believe that, you would believe anything. A 38 year old woman marries a 75 year old for one reason only. She likely married the jockey anf new large farmer, a few years later

MAD is correct .
Collins father was in his 70s when Collins was born .
according to the famous noel Mc Donnell who runs the museum in Cathal Brugha and is a forensic historian and the most passionate tour guide you will ever meet .
he has used large scale x rays of walls to find execution sites and the bodies of Sheeffy Skeffington and others and a 10 year search for some detail is nothing to him .

 

[céline]

Was the Easter Rising essentially a Conservative Revolution?

It was militarist, after all.

Pacifism is much more popular in England than in Ireland.

The only thing Ireland has a problem with is race, since the Irish are Celtick & have a personal problem with Germanick people.

 

[clarke-connolly]

Was the Easter Rising essentially a Conservative Revolution?

It was militarist, after all.

Pacifism is much more popular in England than in Ireland.

The only thing Ireland has a problem with is race, since the Irish are Celtick & have a personal problem with Germanick people.

The Big Problem with Pacifism is = = What do you do / What happens, If your Opponents are Not Pacifists ? !

 

[Declan]

Savagely hit back with a candle lit vigil as they did with Aisling Murphy

 

[Myles O'Reilly]

Pacifism is much more popular in England than in Ireland.

When you say that do you mean the Glorious Revolution in England was essentially a bloodless Coup Sir?

 

[céline]

When you say that do you mean the Glorious Revolution in England was essentially a bloodless Coup Sir?

I mean nowadays, not in the past.