Origins Thread

Do you believe in evolution?


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Haven

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Haha, Tank, you've just 'done a James' - by lazily googling the problem being presented, in a desperate effort to find some sort of a reply and hope the reading audience doesn't understand.

That Nature paper being cited doesn’t demonstrate evolution at all; it shows chemistry doing what chemistry naturally does: settling into stable patterns under changing conditions.

There’s no replication, no inheritance, no mutation, and certainly no coded information. Calling that “evolution” stretches the term beyond recognition. What the authors observed was thermodynamic bias, not the spontaneous rise of a self-organising system capable of storing and refining information, the very definition of life.
Have you tried Google Gemini? I got it to produce this which is better than what you generated.

The findings do not constitute support for evolution itself, but rather for a specific hypothesis within the field of origin-of-life chemistry. The experiment successfully demonstrated a chemical reaction that links nucleotides, solving a problem of synthesis, but it does not—nor does it attempt to—address the massive gap between a short, enzyme-free, self-assembling molecular strand and a robust, coded, cellular life form capable of true heritable variation, differential fitness, and open-ended complexity.

For evolution to begin, the first self-replicator must not only exist but must also be sufficiently prone to beneficial error and fidelity to sustain an ongoing process of improvement. The article offers no experimental support for this critical feature, meaning it remains a study in chemical feasibility that sets the stage for, but does not confirm, the long-term process of biological descent with modification.
 

Tiger

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Have you tried Google Gemini? I got it to produce this which is better than what you generated.

The findings do not constitute support for evolution itself, but rather for a specific hypothesis within the field of origin-of-life chemistry. The experiment successfully demonstrated a chemical reaction that links nucleotides, solving a problem of synthesis, but it does not—nor does it attempt to—address the massive gap between a short, enzyme-free, self-assembling molecular strand and a robust, coded, cellular life form capable of true heritable variation, differential fitness, and open-ended complexity.

For evolution to begin, the first self-replicator must not only exist but must also be sufficiently prone to beneficial error and fidelity to sustain an ongoing process of improvement. The article offers no experimental support for this critical feature, meaning it remains a study in chemical feasibility that sets the stage for, but does not confirm, the long-term process of biological descent with modification.
Tank, firstly - my reply is clearer and more accurate than the AI text you pasted.

Secondly - what exactly was your point in posting it? You replied to a question with the wrong answer, then doubled down instead of admitting it.

It’s obvious to everyone that you skimmed the headline and never actually examined what the study was about or whether it addressed the question being asked. That’s what I meant by “doing a Jambo.” Ironically, your AI-generated response ends up admitting my very point: the study doesn’t demonstrate evolution, mutations, or the emergence of heritable information, which was the core of my original challenge.

In other words, you’ve just confirmed that your first reply was a deflection built on a headline, not an understanding of the science.

What's next, maybe a link to a Fake Dave video? Why not go 'full Jambo'? - as you're already halfway there.
 

Haven

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Tank, firstly - my reply is clearer and more accurate than the AI text you pasted.

Secondly - what exactly was your point in posting it? You replied to a question with the wrong answer, then doubled down instead of admitting it.

It’s obvious to everyone that you skimmed the headline and never actually examined what the study was about or whether it addressed the question being asked. That’s what I meant by “doing a Jambo.” Ironically, your AI-generated response ends up admitting my very point: the study doesn’t demonstrate evolution, mutations, or the emergence of heritable information, which was the core of my original challenge.

In other words, you’ve just confirmed that your first reply was a deflection built on a headline, not an understanding of the science.

What's next, maybe a link to a Fake Dave video? Why not go 'full Jambo'? - as you're already halfway there.
Because if you wanted it, you can ask your AI engine to spin it positive, for the same article.

Like this.

"This discovery provides powerful support for the overall theory of evolution by strengthening its necessary foundation: abiogenesis, the natural origin of life. The finding that simple, prebiotic chemistry could have readily synthesized the building blocks of both DNA and RNA using a common compound, diamidophosphate (DAP), eliminates a massive theoretical hurdle. Biological evolution, driven by natural selection, can only begin once a self-replicating molecule capable of carrying heritable information exists. By showing that the primary genetic molecules (DNA/RNA) could have arisen through common, non-biological chemical pathways on the early Earth, this research provides the essential, naturalistic starting point required by the theory of evolution, lending credibility to the entire continuum of life from simple chemistry to complex organisms.

Furthermore, the discovery supports an evolutionary framework by proposing a model of gradualism and continuity. Instead of viewing the "RNA World" as a discrete stage followed by a miraculous jump to modern DNA-based life, the research suggests the first replicators were likely chimeric molecules, part RNA and part DNA. This suggests the transition from the earliest, most primitive genetic systems to the highly stable, double-stranded DNA of modern cells was not a sudden, unexplainable event, but a smooth, evolutionary process built on a shared set of simple chemical reactions. This continuous, stepwise path from chemical complexity to biological complexity reinforces the core evolutionary principle that all of life's complex features, including its fundamental genetic machinery, arose through natural, measurable steps over deep time."
 

Tiger

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Because if you wanted it, you can ask your AI engine to spin it positive, for the same article.

Like this.

"This discovery provides powerful support for the overall theory of evolution by strengthening its necessary foundation: abiogenesis, the natural origin of life. The finding that simple, prebiotic chemistry could have readily synthesized the building blocks of both DNA and RNA using a common compound, diamidophosphate (DAP), eliminates a massive theoretical hurdle. Biological evolution, driven by natural selection, can only begin once a self-replicating molecule capable of carrying heritable information exists. By showing that the primary genetic molecules (DNA/RNA) could have arisen through common, non-biological chemical pathways on the early Earth, this research provides the essential, naturalistic starting point required by the theory of evolution, lending credibility to the entire continuum of life from simple chemistry to complex organisms.

Furthermore, the discovery supports an evolutionary framework by proposing a model of gradualism and continuity. Instead of viewing the "RNA World" as a discrete stage followed by a miraculous jump to modern DNA-based life, the research suggests the first replicators were likely chimeric molecules, part RNA and part DNA. This suggests the transition from the earliest, most primitive genetic systems to the highly stable, double-stranded DNA of modern cells was not a sudden, unexplainable event, but a smooth, evolutionary process built on a shared set of simple chemical reactions. This continuous, stepwise path from chemical complexity to biological complexity reinforces the core evolutionary principle that all of life's complex features, including its fundamental genetic machinery, arose through natural, measurable steps over deep time."
More silly deflection and spoofing.

You’re treating AI-generated rhetoric as if it were evidence, when it isn't. Anyone can prompt an AI to spin a narrative around a study, but that doesn’t make the narrative true. The text you just quoted is a theoretical gloss, not a description of what the paper actually demonstrated. The Nature study didn’t show self-replication, heritable information, or mutation, it showed chemical bias under cycling conditions.

You’re defending the story of evolution, not the data. And that’s precisely why my original question matters; because it exposes a fundamental problem in evolutionary theory that no amount of headline-spinning or AI rhetoric can fix. Pretending the question doesn’t exist doesn’t make the problem go away.
 

Haven

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More silly deflection and spoofing.

You’re treating AI-generated rhetoric as if it were evidence, when it isn't. Anyone can prompt an AI to spin a narrative around a study, but that doesn’t make the narrative true. The text you just quoted is a theoretical gloss, not a description of what the paper actually demonstrated. The Nature study didn’t show self-replication, heritable information, or mutation, it showed chemical bias under cycling conditions.

You’re defending the story of evolution, not the data. And that’s precisely why my original question matters; because it exposes a fundamental problem in evolutionary theory that no amount of headline-spinning or AI rhetoric can fix. Pretending the question doesn’t exist doesn’t make the problem go away.
As I said, try something different with the AI material you post.
 

Tiger

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As I said, try something different with the AI material you post.
Pathetic.

Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder that this is the question that has stumped the purveyors of scientism in their tracks…

If random mutations almost always break existing functions rather than create new ones, how can they plausibly explain the origin of the complex information encoded in even the simplest cell?

Insert deflection response here 👇👇👇
 

Haven

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Pathetic.

Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder that this is the question that has stumped the purveyors of scientism in their tracks…

If random mutations almost always break existing functions rather than create new ones, how can they plausibly explain the origin of the complex information encoded in even the simplest cell?

Insert deflection response here 👇👇👇
1000095136.png
 

AN2

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Pathetic.

Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder that this is the question that has stumped the purveyors of scientism in their tracks…

If random mutations almost always break existing functions rather than create new ones, how can they plausibly explain the origin of the complex information encoded in even the simplest cell?

Insert deflection response here 👇👇👇
Why are you asking a question that I answered yesterday, you spa?
 

Haven

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That’s 100% wrong.

In a desperate attempt to avoid answering a question that shatters your belief in evolution, you’re now trying to steer the debate to be what is and isn’t AI. That’s even worse than promissory scientism.
You are a bullshit artist and you've been caught.
 

Tiger

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You are a bullshit artist and you've been caught.
Pathetic deflection. That’s all you and James have. The only person caught was you trying to answer a difficult question with an article that didn’t answer the question.

Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder that this is the question that has stumped the purveyors of scientism in their tracks…

If random mutations almost always break existing functions rather than create new ones, how can they plausibly explain the origin of the complex information encoded in even the simplest cell?

Insert deflection response here 👇👇👇
 

Haven

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Pathetic deflection. That’s all you and James have. The only person caught was you trying to answer a difficult question with an article that didn’t answer the question.

Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder that this is the question that has stumped the purveyors of scientism in their tracks…

If random mutations almost always break existing functions rather than create new ones, how can they plausibly explain the origin of the complex information encoded in even the simplest cell?

Insert deflection response here 👇👇👇
Since you are using AI lets see what it says:

The concern that random mutations primarily break existing functions rather than create new ones is a common challenge raised against evolution, but the evolutionary mechanism relies on a crucial distinction: the interplay between random mutation and non-random natural selection. While it is true that most mutations that do affect function—especially in essential, highly optimized genes—are often deleterious or neutral (a loss-of-function is far more likely than a direct, instant gain-of-function), evolution does not rely on the majority of mutations being beneficial. Instead, it depends on the sheer power of numbers over vast timescales.

The "complex information" in a cell doesn't arise from a single beneficial leap; it emerges through three main avenues, all stemming from mutations: gene duplication, neutral drift, and selection acting on small changes. Gene duplication is key: one copy retains the original, essential function, while the second, redundant copy is free to accumulate significant, often breaking, mutations without killing the organism. Over time, this redundant copy can accidentally gain a new function (gain-of-function) that proves beneficial under selection. Furthermore, many mutations are neutral and don't break or immediately improve function; these accumulate and provide a massive reservoir of raw genetic material upon which selection can later act if the environment changes. Therefore, the seemingly "broken" functions are often necessary stepping stones or raw materials that, through duplication and later modification, provide the novel parts needed to build the complex informational structures observed in life.
 

AN2

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lol I think it's been established that Tiger doesn't understand the fundamentals of evolution (that small children do)
 

Tiger

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Wow, and there you have it folks 👆👆👆 - two eejits, completely out of their depth, throwing AI shade at their opponents and then both replying with explicitly AI responses. Go figure.

What’s worse, is that neither of them realise how weak the AI responses are, despite the AI doing it’s best to give them a pleasing answer.
 

Tiger

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lol I think it's been established that Tiger doesn't understand the fundamentals of evolution (that small children do)
James, your responses to my question (even using AI) show that it’s YOU who is struggling. You actually think that your AI covers the problem. It doesn’t.
 

AN2

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James, your responses to my question (even using AI) show that it’s YOU who is struggling. You actually think that your AI covers the problem. It doesn’t.
My answer in post #1,351 wasn't AI, you fool
 

AN2

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Wow, and there you have it folks 👆👆👆 - two eejits, completely out of their depth, throwing AI shade at their opponents and then both replying with explicitly AI responses. Go figure.
What’s worse, is that neither of them realise how weak the AI responses are, despite the AI doing it’s best to give them a pleasing answer.
No, that's what you do. If and when I use AI, I copy your written ID junk verbatim, the only alteration ever made being to the first word (as explained in your failed Tiger Challenge 2)
 

Haven

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Wow, and there you have it folks 👆👆👆 - two eejits, completely out of their depth, throwing AI shade at their opponents and then both replying with explicitly AI responses. Go figure.
Its been good enough for you to use. So why not?

What’s worse, is that neither of them realise how weak the AI responses are, despite the AI doing it’s best to give them a pleasing answer.
How are you judging the AI material you are posting?
 

Tiger

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No, that's what you do. If and when I use AI, I copy your written ID junk verbatim, the only alteration ever made being to the first word (as explained in your failed Tiger Challenge 2)
This is gibberish James. Gibberish.
 

AN2

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This is gibberish James. Gibberish.
To you it is, everything is 🤣

Surely by now, even your boyfriends are starting to realise what an obtuse twat you are (although I often give people credit for having average intelligence)
 

Tiger

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Its been good enough for you to use. So why not?


How are you judging the AI material you are posting?
I don’t need AI to know that your reply is defective. I can read it and understand that it’s not answering the question properly. Unlike you.

Before unpacking your reply, can you confirm that you believe it answers the question in favour of evolutionary theory?
 

Tiger

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To you it is, everything is 🤣

Surely by now, even your boyfriends are starting to realise what an obtuse twat you are (although I often give people credit for having average intelligence)
More schoolyard gibberish.
 

Haven

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I don’t need AI to know that your reply is defective. I can read it and understand that it’s not answering the question properly. Unlike you.
Can you explain why?
Before unpacking your reply, can you confirm that you believe it answers the question in favour of evolutionary theory?
What does your AI site say about it?
 

AN2

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Almost? So you're not going with your boy Meyer who says always? 🤔

So we've got: neutral, good and bad mutations, would you accept that?

Do you know what natural selection is?
So what's wrong with that ^, @Tiger 🤔
 

Haven

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Tiger is now running his AI content though a detector, and making repeated revisions to make it sound human. It does take time.
 

AN2

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He'll have a tough time finding an AI that will deny the basic evolutionary process:

random mutation + non-random selection = complexity over time

So I think he'll come back with his other favourite thing to do, which is hand-waving
 

Hermit

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Grammarly.png

Quillbot.png


You're not exactly scoring perfectly yourself:

It is not abandoning free speech by choosing to state a view and disengage from a specific argument; free speech is not a forced obligation to endlessly debate all challengers. When you disengage from debate, as you always do, as thats your right to do so. But don"t be butthurt when I call you out: labeling a viewpoint as "mindless propaganda" is always a lazy rhetorical dismissal, not a counter-argument. And to equate sharing a view you don't agree with with platform abuse is to demand that the site exclusively host views you agree with, which is effectively cancel culture.

Now lets get back to our regular programming.
ai.png
 

AN2

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@Tiger, @Hermit WTF are you doing posting on the retards thread??
Should be renamed the 'One flew over the cuokoo's nest" thread.:ROFLMAO:
Quit spamming ffs

Go and copy paste an article in the Ukraine thread, photos and all (as if that makes a difference from just posting the link) or do some f*cking other thing than butting in in this thread with spam and abuse
 

Tiger

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View attachment 8312
View attachment 8314

You're not exactly scoring perfectly yourself:


View attachment 8313
Tank’s a notorious troll.

His MO is to disrupt any forum discussions which are not in line with the establishment narrative. He passionately defended lockdowns, supported medical apartheid and forced vaccination. Promotes everything LGBTQ related. Thinks Ukraine is 2 weeks away from winning the war against Russia on any given day. Climate change…there’s literally no subject that he isn’t an establishment bootlicker on. He has zero credibility. So, I’m actually glad he’s a vocal supporter of evolution.

So, here today, his focus is to push an awkward question about evolution that he and James can’t answer properly into a discussion about AI.
 

AN2

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Tank’s a notorious troll.

His MO is to disrupt any forum discussions which are not in line with the establishment narrative. He passionately defended lockdowns, supported medical apartheid and forced vaccination. Promotes everything LGBTQ related. Thinks Ukraine is 2 weeks away from winning the war against Russia on any given day. Climate change…there’s literally no subject that he isn’t an establishment bootlicker on. He has zero credibility. So, I’m actually glad he’s a vocal supporter of evolution.
So, here today, his focus is to push an awkward question about evolution that he and James can’t answer into a discussion about AI.
You're utterly deluded

PS. I was right - hand-waving
 

Haven

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Tank’s a notorious troll.

His MO is to disrupt any forum discussions which are not in line with the establishment narrative. He passionately defended lockdowns, supported medical apartheid and forced vaccination. Promotes everything LGBTQ related. Thinks Ukraine is 2 weeks away from winning the war against Russia on any given day. Climate change…there’s literally no subject that he isn’t an establishment bootlicker on. He has zero credibility. So, I’m actually glad he’s a vocal supporter of evolution.

So, here today, his focus is to push an awkward question about evolution that he and James can’t answer into a discussion about AI.
Your credibility is shot. You have been caught. Badly.

You are using AI and least you can do is tell us which one you are using.
 

Tiger

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Your credibility is shot. You have been caught. Badly.

You are using AI and least you can do is tell us which one you are using.
Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder that this is the question that has stumped the purveyors of scientism in their tracks…

If random mutations almost always break existing functions rather than create new ones, how can they plausibly explain the origin of the complex information encoded in even the simplest cell?

Insert AI deflection here 👇👇👇
 

AN2

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Your credibility is shot. You have been caught. Badly.

You are using AI and least you can do is tell us which one you are using.
This guy thinks that an "awkward question" for "evolutionists" is one a child could answer - but he can't. Nor of course does he accept the answer, twas always thus
 

Wolf

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Quit spamming ffs

Go and copy paste an article in the Ukraine thread, photos and all (as if that makes a difference from just posting the link) or do some f*cking other thing than butting in in this thread with spam and abuse
LOL's, yer on the right thread now alright.
Insomniacs 'R' Us
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

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