Tuam excavation begins

Haven said:
No human being has the right to use another person's body to stay alive without their ongoing consent.
Click to expand...
So you would agree then that a parent has the right to be neglectful of their child, up to and including allowing them to starve to death? 🤔

Haven said:
We apply this rule everywhere else. You cannot legally force someone to donate blood or a kidney to save a dying person.
Click to expand...
Is this why @Tiger keeps on saying that you engage in strawman fallacies?

Haven said:
Withdrawing bodily support from a fetus when it means protecting a womans own physical health and safety is, fundamentally, a form of self-defense.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the terminology here.. But you're just picking "hard cases" again, aren't you. That's not what 'abortion on demand' is
 
Haven said:
Well I don't. I use a seperate editor and copy it in.
Click to expand...
The Office Lol GIF
 
The Equalizer said:
Is this why @Tiger keeps on saying that you engage in strawman fallacies?
Click to expand...
I take the arguments to the logical conclusions.
Tiger wants to pick and choose, to generate highly artifical and tightly controled arguments, and bat away all the questions that immediately arise as "strawmen".
Its just dishonest really. And obvious.
 
Haven said:
I take the arguments to the logical conclusions.
Click to expand...
You wouldn’t know a logical conclusion if it hit you in the head 🤣
Haven said:
Tiger wants to pick and choose, to generate highly artifical and tightly controled arguments, and bat away all the questions that immediately arise as "strawmen".
Its just dishonest really. And obvious.
Click to expand...
For example, the immigration debate arose by me throwing your own question back at you and switching Ireland for another randomly chosen country in the world.

A question which you’ve been evading (badly) since.
 
Haven said:
No—you appear to be making an entirely different point. You have to explain how your point follows from mine
Click to expand...
If a child doesn't have a right to depend on another person's body to stay alive, then why is child neglect illegal?
 
Tiger said:
You wouldn’t know a logical conclusion if it hit you in the head 🤣

For example, the immigration debate arose by me throwing your own question back at you and switching Ireland for another randomly chosen country in the world.

A question which you’ve been evading (badly) since.
Click to expand...
You played the "majority rules" card on immigration.
I can get behind that.
Did you know a majority of countries legalise abortion in some form?
 
Just Think said:
Man, there's some serious trolling going on here.
It's funny.
Click to expand...
Yup.

‘Haven’ is an online troll formally known as ‘Tank’ on Political Irish. He spent 10-15 hours a day shilling for big pharmaceutical companies for about 4 years during Covid.

He’s a ‘Normie’ par excellence.
 
The Equalizer said:
If a child doesn't have a right to depend on another person's body to stay alive, then why is child neglect illegal?
Click to expand...
When a child is born, their survival no longer requires the use of someones body.

Child neglect laws require that the child gets external care (like food and shelter) or that care is transfered to another person.
 
Tiger said:
Yup.

‘Haven’ is an online troll formally known as ‘Tank’ on Political Irish. He spent 10-15 hours a day shilling for big pharmaceutical companies for about 4 years during Covid.

He’s a ‘Normie’ par excellence.
Click to expand...
Takes all sorts I suppose.
 
Just Think said:
Man, there's some serious trolling going on here.
It's funny.
Click to expand...
Just pointing out how poor these arguments are.

I'm actually astonished, to be honest.

There are far better ways to make their points but I'm sure as fuck not going to help them.
 
Haven said:
You played the "majority rules" card on immigration.
I can get behind that.
Did you know a majority of countries legalise abortion in some form?
Click to expand...
Nope.

I simply highlighted that you can’t even muster a basic case for why anyone on the planet can magically become ‘Irish’, but Irish people aren’t afforded the same magic anywhere.

In fact I asked you to list the countries where they could…still waiting on that list btw…

No One Page GIF
 
Tiger said:
Nope.

I simply highlighted that you can’t even muster a basic case for why anyone on the planet can magically become ‘Irish’, but Irish people aren’t afforded the same magic anywhere.

In fact I asked you to list the countries where they could…still waiting on that list btw…

No One Page GIF
Click to expand...
I don't have to because I told you I accepted your argument on immigration. Majority rules.

Regarding abortion, those countries that legalise it make up 60% of the worlds population.

Majority rules. Debate over.
 
The Equalizer said:
So you think a child, or a baby, doesn't depend on adults after birth? Bizarre
Click to expand...
Child neglect laws require that the child gets external care (like food and shelter) or that care is transfered to another person.
 
Haven said:
Child neglect laws require that the child gets external care (like food and shelter) or that care is transfered to another person.
Click to expand...
If a baby isn't taken care of by someone else, will it be able to take care of itself. The obvious answer is No. That's how we've evolved
 
The Equalizer said:
If a baby isn't taken care of by someone else, will it be able to take care of itself. The obvious answer is No. That's how we've evolved
Click to expand...
Thats why we came up with clans and tribes and other co-operative groups.

worldofpaleoanthropology.org

Parenting Across the Ages: What Early Hominins Can Teach Us About Raising Children Today

Imagine what it might have been like to be a parent 1.8 million years ago. There were no cribs, no baby monitors, and no parenting books. Yet, the task of caring for and raising children was just a…
worldofpaleoanthropology.org worldofpaleoanthropology.org
 
The Equalizer said:
If a baby isn't taken care of by someone else, will it be able to take care of itself. The obvious answer is No. That's how we've evolved
Click to expand...
At the time of the Tuam mother and children's home was active, what was the still born rate in Ireland?
It operated from 1925 until 1961 according to google.
Why did the RCC get the blame when it was Irish society that forced these young women into the homes.
The church is an easy scapegoat, much easier than looking at the generations that went before us, our parents and grandparents etc.
 
Haven said:
Thats why we came up with clans and tribes and other co-operative groups.

worldofpaleoanthropology.org

Parenting Across the Ages: What Early Hominins Can Teach Us About Raising Children Today

Imagine what it might have been like to be a parent 1.8 million years ago. There were no cribs, no baby monitors, and no parenting books. Yet, the task of caring for and raising children was just a…
worldofpaleoanthropology.org worldofpaleoanthropology.org
Click to expand...
Generally speaking, the parents of a baby are expected to take care of it, if it all possible which, does require, having a body.
 
The Equalizer said:
Generally speaking, the parents of a baby are expected to take care of it, if it all possible which, does require, having a body.
Click to expand...
The umbilical cord is cut at birth however. The baby is then no longer a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.
 
Haven said:
The umbilical cord is cut at birth however. The baby is then no longer a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.
Click to expand...
Which is the case in almost all abortions. So what's your point?
 
The Equalizer said:
Sure. You agree that in the case of almost all abortions the baby is not a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.
Click to expand...
I agree to what you bolded, a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.
 
Haven said:
I agree to what you bolded, a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.
Click to expand...
Please don't rely on you not being able to read, for comprehension..

You agree that in the case of almost all abortions the baby is not a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.

R u backtracking, or r u now saying that you don't agree?
 
The Equalizer said:
Please don't rely on you not being able to read, for comprehension..

You agree that in the case of almost all abortions the baby is not a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.

R u backtracking, or r u now saying that you don't agree?
Click to expand...
Im not back tracking. You bolded "...a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety." And then went on to say "Which is the case in almost all abortions".

I agree with that. I agree with what you said.

I think you meant to also bold "no longer...", but alas.
 
Haven said:
Im not back tracking. You bolded "...a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety." And then went on to say "Which is the case in almost all abortions".

I agree with that. I agree with what you said.

I think you meant to also bold "no longer...", but alas.
Click to expand...
I told you, it doesn't matter how you, ostensibly, misinterpreted what I said, I said this, and I'm saying it again now -

In the case of almost all abortions the baby is not a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.

Do you agree?
 
The Equalizer said:
I told you, it doesn't matter how you, ostensibly, misinterpreted what I said, I said this, and I'm saying it again now -

In the case of almost all abortions the baby is not a possible danger to the mothers physical health and safety.

Do you agree?
Click to expand...
No. Giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do.

Maternal mortality

WHO fact sheet on maternal mortality with key facts and providing information on MDG 4, where deaths occur, causes, lack of care and WHO response.
www.who.int www.who.int

www.urmc.rochester.edu

Why Childbirth Is Still Dangerous in America—and What We Can Do About It

Bringing a child into the world is a natural process, but pregnancy and childbirth are also medical conditions that carry significant health risks. Our society makes things worse by not talking about it.
www.urmc.rochester.edu www.urmc.rochester.edu


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1gzpq78/how_come_no_one_talks_about_how_dangerous/
 
Haven said:
No. Giving birth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do.
Click to expand...
Where?

Secondly, please tell me what you think the percentage of women who have abortions is because of concerns over their own health and safety?

Haven said:

Maternal mortality

WHO fact sheet on maternal mortality with key facts and providing information on MDG 4, where deaths occur, causes, lack of care and WHO response.
www.who.int www.who.int

www.urmc.rochester.edu

Why Childbirth Is Still Dangerous in America—and What We Can Do About It

Bringing a child into the world is a natural process, but pregnancy and childbirth are also medical conditions that carry significant health risks. Our society makes things worse by not talking about it.
www.urmc.rochester.edu www.urmc.rochester.edu


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1gzpq78/how_come_no_one_talks_about_how_dangerous/
Click to expand...
 
The Equalizer said:
No, what country, Ireland?

Do you think that it's common for women to die in childbirth in Ireland?
Click to expand...
Are you subtly moving the goalposts?

Dying is not the only problem a woman can face in childbirth. We are still talking dangers to the mothers physical health and safety.



Childbirth related trauma - Trinity Centre for Maternity Care Research (TCMCR) | Trinity College Dublin

www.tcd.ie www.tcd.ie

Ill stop here for tonight. I'll contnue your lesson tomorrow.
 
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